Charly,

Just curious -- how are you hooked up, USB or wi-fi?

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Alienware Aurora R16, Win 11, i9-149000KF, 3.20GHz CPU, 64GB RAM, RTX 4090 (24GB), Samsung 870 Pro 8TB, Gen3 MVNe M-2 SSD, 4TBx2, 39" Alienware Widescreen Monitor
Mike "ex-genius" Kelley

Hi , just wifi


     

Faceshift was "THE" markerless facial mocap software for the Kinect before Apple scooped it up to add a few gimmicks for it's expensive toys - heck, they even bought the company that provided the technology behind the Kinect... and as Apple are not big fans of Microsoft we can be pretty sure they won't ever release Faceshift for the Kinect again.  It's a shame.

I'm sure I'm not alone in having purchased a Kinect for the sole purpose of iClone's mocap and, although I've moved on from that, the idea for RL to provide a Kinect based 'facial mocap' plugin that utilizes the now 'dust collecting paper weight' they convinced me to purchase would be very much welcomed.  I'm sure they could strike a deal with Brekel to implement an "iClone" version of his Pro Face V2 - which, although nowhere nearly as sophisticated as the other facial mocap systems, is actually quite usable AND could theoretically retail for less than $100 (did I mention it can track up to six faces at once).  RL has nothing to lose by offering a more 'basic' solution for significantly less money - in fact, it would only strengthen their market position by offering "every budget level" support for advanced features like mocap.  2 cents spent. 

I couldn't agree more Mark ....
Facial Mocap, being a $1000+ setup, effectively prices out the small guy.
I've now got the Brekel body mocap - and it does a descent enough job. I've learned the basics of 'cleaning-up' - and it isn't too painful really.


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Please be patient with me ..... I don't always 'get it' the first time 'round - not even the 2nd time!   - yikes! ... 

● MSI GT72VR Laptop, i7 7700HQ 4-Core 3.8 GHz 16GB RAM; Nvidia 1070, 8GB Vram ● iClone-7.93 ● 3DXChange Pipeline 7.81 ● CC-3 Pipeline 3.44 ● Live Face ● HeadShot ● Brekel Pro-Body ● Popcorn FX ● iRAY ● Kinect V2 ● DaVinci Resolve17 ● Mixcraft 8.1

 RL has nothing to lose by offering a more 'basic' solution for significantly less money

Just my 2 cents too...
If I think logic regarding what reallusion is/will developing today are bridges to existing technology in iclone.
Faceware , Live Face , Noitom , Xsens , Nvidia , Allegorythmic , Persistance studio, Instalod wich are strong companys
and therefor reliable. The Brekel man is a one guy very buisy with his microsoft work and may be not enough 
strong for support. The only think that reallusion is developing (in 3D) are Iclone render and Character creation.

By the way , I just made a fast test of face Live and it's really better than faceware I onwed too.

Mark,

Ah, yes, now I remember all that -- had completely forgotten that turn of events (because once Apple acquired it, I had written it off, since with the exception of my phones and iPads, I don't do much Apple work anymore.  Although my old Macbook Air is still the best laptop I've ever owned).

And now it makes sense why Faceshift is so good -- and it really is, far superior to Faceware.  A real shame it couldn't be implemented on other technology, but it makes me feel warmer than ever that a year ago I made the decision to go with the X (I was *this* close to just getting the iPhone 8 to upgrade my 6, but thought, why not get the top of the line just in case?  I would be kicking myself in the butt if I hadn't made that decision.  As it is I'm seriously considering selling my wife's 8, which I did buy at the same time, and upgrading her to an X just so I have access to 2.  Assuming she'd let me -- she's VERY protective of her phone :>.

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Alienware Aurora R16, Win 11, i9-149000KF, 3.20GHz CPU, 64GB RAM, RTX 4090 (24GB), Samsung 870 Pro 8TB, Gen3 MVNe M-2 SSD, 4TBx2, 39" Alienware Widescreen Monitor
Mike "ex-genius" Kelley

I wish I'd see a proof of that. So far, of all the tests that have been made by you and Charly Rama, I didn't see any conclusive evidence of Faceshift superiority.



My latest movie THE GOLDEN MAN, and a few others: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIl1EqVCKitZzLqaNnLK0BA

Brekel may be a one man show, but all he would have to do is create a export file which iClone could read (like he has already done for DAZ).  The RL version of Pro Face could have cosmetic changes and ONLY export, and possibly live stream, to iClone in order to justify a lower price.  Not sure where the 'cons' are in this scenario...  it wouldn't challenge the "strong companies", just offer another "tier" of function and access to hobbyists who may want to have some level of facial mocap beyond the visemes.  I've tried the demo with DAZ... it's far from polished and needs cleanup, but is still far quicker than animating by hand.  I like the idea of capturing two actors (or more) at the same time - even if the capture is crude, the timing between their performances is far better than doing them individually.

I understand you Argus. But for me, and it's just and stay my sensation and my opinion,  using faceshift made me to leave faceware definitely. Lips movements are really more accurate without any corrections post mocap. After all; You're right, if you already spent money buying faceware, if you don't see the difference, there's no reason to migrate to faceshift, I understand. I've done because I see a difference


     

@charly >>> " .... You're right, if you already spent money buying faceware, if you don't see the difference, there's no reason to migrate to faceshift, .... " <<<
Good point - whether we're 'pro' or 'hobbyist' - we all buy what we feel is right for our needs at the time we invest. Unless there's compelling reason to change, we go with what we've got and make the most of it.

@Mark ... Offering another 'tier' as you say (something like Brekel) makes a lot of sense. It would mean more sales for Reallusion. There's no doubt a large chunk of iClone users who simply won't purchase 'Motion Live' (reasonably priced as it is), simply because of the high price of 'body' and 'face' plugi-ns. It's simply beyond the hobbyist budget and so they don't even get to first base. The 'serious' among them will then look for alternative ways and work-a-rounds to achieve their results...

But I'll be totally honest here .... While I'm getting workable results with Brekel's *Pro Body* software (yes, with 'some' cleanup), I haven't found the *Pro Face* (using the trial version) to be as responsive. It *could* be me - though I've tried altering the settings - but to date, my tests show a very 'under-expressive' face unfortunately. If anyone has some advice on how to get good results out of Brekel's Pro Face (version 2), I'd really like to know.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Please be patient with me ..... I don't always 'get it' the first time 'round - not even the 2nd time!   - yikes! ... 

● MSI GT72VR Laptop, i7 7700HQ 4-Core 3.8 GHz 16GB RAM; Nvidia 1070, 8GB Vram ● iClone-7.93 ● 3DXChange Pipeline 7.81 ● CC-3 Pipeline 3.44 ● Live Face ● HeadShot ● Brekel Pro-Body ● Popcorn FX ● iRAY ● Kinect V2 ● DaVinci Resolve17 ● Mixcraft 8.1