From what I can garnish from the BMD forum, the plan is to keep the Fusion standalone as a product alongside the "embedded" Fusion in Resolve.  If you buy the Fusion Studio version, you will be able to run the DaVinci Studio Suite too.  Everything I've demoed for iClone only uses the "free" version of Fusion feature set.  In a nutshell, the Studio version offers 3rd party OFX plugins support, network render, stereo tools, camera and planar tracking and the optical flow tools (slow motion and motion vectors).

*SonicSteve... yes, I usually put a 0.5 blur on all "unfiltered" CG - it takes the edge off, and helps soften "the jaggies".  Your assumptions are correct, the Fusion toolset is complete enough to do just about anything you can imagine - the key, as always, is experimenting!

@SonicSteve,

I've been following this thread since the beginning, you ask the most interesting questions and people actually respond! LOL :P

I've been testing the different solutions I found in your thread, as time allows me, on my Mother's Day video since I first tried to use DOF in it, but I had to disable it in order to get a reasonable render time.  It was at 13% which took about 2 hours to get to when I aborted, slowed my computer to a crawl also.  I didn't really need DOF in this video but wanted the softness it can give.

After disabling DOF it took about 30 minutes to render the video.  The last test I did was to try rendering as an image sequence with DOF on but that option was taking way too long also, about the same as the video test, maybe a little faster but not much. 

I've downloaded Fusion 9 and will give it a whirl, but I was wondering what's the difference in using Fusion or an image editor to just rendering single image backgrounds with DOF, bring them into iClone as a plane or billboard then use the "Materials - Visible" feature in the timeline to change them when needed? 

At least this was my first thought when I started reading this thread.




Dell XPS 8900, Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-6700 CPU @ 3.40GHz, 3408 Mhz, 4 Core(s), 8 Logical Processor(s), 16 GB RAM, - 4 GB GeForce GTX 745, NVIDIA compatible.
Acer Aspire V Nitro Laptop,  2.5GHz Intel Core i5-7300HQ processor with 6MB cache,  256GB solid state drive, 16GB Ram,  4 GB NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050 Ti graphics.

@Snarpe ...
" .... I was wondering what's the difference in using Fusion or an image editor to just rendering single image backgrounds with DOF, bring them into iClone as a plane or billboard then use the "Materials - Visible" feature in the timeline to change them when needed? ..... "
ha! - Snarpe ... I was thinking along *similar* lines yesterday...
I'd started thinking 'If only some of the essential Fusion FX were available right here inside iClone'. Then, I played a bit with Fusion 9 and 'fell in love' with it...
I thought OK, - there's everything I'll ever need inside Fusion..... - But, if not mistaken - which happens often unfortunately :blush: ... it would still mean 'locking in' (finalizing) each of my camera angles in iClone before rendering their layers in 'Fusion'. - So if I wanted to later 'alter' a camera shot, I'd need to go back to iClone and export the 'changed' layers for re-compositing in Fusion. It was at this point I was thinking 'if only the benefits of both' were available in ONE place, without going back and forward between programs.
Like you say, better DOF could be obtained *inside* iClone by adding pre-blurred elements, (like a plane or billboard), though currently that would mean *external photo editor* if I'm not mistaken. So again, still 2 programs needed, BUT ....  I'm thinking, at least IF THE BACKGROUND IMAGE WERE LARGE ENOUGH (did you touch on this in another thread?) - then little or no adjustments would be needed if only 'fine tuning' a camera angle. Point being; the project could remain 'dynamic' in structure with all 'adjustments' being possible right inside of iClone - at any time, creating on the fly .....
Not sure if this makes sense ???? Have I missed something here ?
Steve.


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Please be patient with me ..... I don't always 'get it' the first time 'round - not even the 2nd time! :(  - yikes! ... 

● MSI GT72VR Laptop, i7 7700HQ 4-Core 3.8 GHz 16GB RAM; Nvidia 1070, 8GB Vram ● iClone-7.93 ● 3DXChange Pipeline 7.81 ● CC-3 Pipeline 3.44 ● Live Face ● HeadShot ● Brekel Pro-Body ● Popcorn FX ● iRAY ● Kinect V2 ● DaVinci Resolve17 ● Mixcraft 8.1

If you want to keep things in Iclone as much as possible, there are blur effects you can apply to a scene as a post effect. Under the Stage tab, choose effect, and you'll see lens blur, and blur among other types of effects. The regular blur would probably work better for DOF type effects. Set up your scene, choose the blur effect and tweak settings, render your background, and re import as a background image or image plane. No image editor needed.
  Technically, these are not true DOF or lens effects, just blurs you can apply to the image, and this method of compositing is about as far as Iclone can take it. You'll still have way more control in a proper compositing app, but if it will help you tell your story, it's just as valid as any other method discussed so far...

Intel Core i7-13700F - 32GB Memory - NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4070 TI. Iclone 8, Character Creator 4, Blender, Davinci Resolve studio, Fusion studio

If you really dig Fusion, here's another thing you can try. This is not strictly DOF related, more  of a lens simulation effect called Vintage Lens that's made for Fusion. Mimics some of the artifacting you get from anamorphic lenses. You can read more about it here: http://renderstory.com/vintagelens-for-compositing/

Intel Core i7-13700F - 32GB Memory - NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4070 TI. Iclone 8, Character Creator 4, Blender, Davinci Resolve studio, Fusion studio

Ben ... your suggestion of stage tab > effect > blur ... What a pleasant surprise that is ... what's more - it's 'accumulative', so each extra 'click' on this blur tab adds more and more blur in reasonable 'steps'. However it seems to apply the blur universally across all camera views and even 'hidden' objects (once they're toggled from 'hide' to 'show'), will take on with these applied (universal) blur setting. Even so, this adds some possibilities. Now if only I could get these 'planes' positioned predictably using a workable approach ...


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Please be patient with me ..... I don't always 'get it' the first time 'round - not even the 2nd time! :(  - yikes! ... 

● MSI GT72VR Laptop, i7 7700HQ 4-Core 3.8 GHz 16GB RAM; Nvidia 1070, 8GB Vram ● iClone-7.93 ● 3DXChange Pipeline 7.81 ● CC-3 Pipeline 3.44 ● Live Face ● HeadShot ● Brekel Pro-Body ● Popcorn FX ● iRAY ● Kinect V2 ● DaVinci Resolve17 ● Mixcraft 8.1

Because I work with image sequences, I don't rely on iClone to supply me with a competed video. All sound is already external, so a bit of compositing would not be too problematic. For a "draft" version iClone's DOF would be good enough, with the final touches to  be accomplished in Fusion or something similar. I believe that in the "professional" world multiple render passes are the norm. Now maybe with Iray we will have better DOF; we'll see.

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76% of original size (was 661x19) - Click to enlarge

Woops .... I may have spoken too soon.
OK. - It *looks* great on the preview screen when you add iClone's blur - but:
Rendering out an image really only works IF you blur just 'once'.
If you add a second blur (a 'double' shot) - then the rendered image becomes dark.
Using a single blur isn't enough of a 'blur' (unfortunately) - and I get the impression that there aren't any 'settings' available for dialing in a 'blur strength'.
This is a real pity because this 'inbuilt blur' is (otherwise) a great feature.

@animagic >>> " ..... in the "professional" world multiple render passes are the norm..... "
I'm sure you're correct on that ... I'm always looking for "(fairly) optimal results obtained with as few steps as possible" - I think this is particularly needed if you're doing a 'similar' procedure over and over again...

Edit Update ....  OK - I just had a Duh! moment (or was that a 'senior's moment' :doze:  - never mind) ....
Well there IS a blur strength setting:
Visual Tab (left side) > Post Effect.    Brilliant! :rolleyes:


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Please be patient with me ..... I don't always 'get it' the first time 'round - not even the 2nd time! :(  - yikes! ... 

● MSI GT72VR Laptop, i7 7700HQ 4-Core 3.8 GHz 16GB RAM; Nvidia 1070, 8GB Vram ● iClone-7.93 ● 3DXChange Pipeline 7.81 ● CC-3 Pipeline 3.44 ● Live Face ● HeadShot ● Brekel Pro-Body ● Popcorn FX ● iRAY ● Kinect V2 ● DaVinci Resolve17 ● Mixcraft 8.1

I agree completely with both Animagic and Sonic7  on their respective points. For those that wish to streamline the workflow to be done with a shot faster and stay in Iclone the whole way, in app blur and DOF effects can get you close. For those needing a higher production value and towards a more  cinematic DOF, compositing will win every day. Looking forward to what Iclone 7.3 and eventual Iray implementation have to offer.

Intel Core i7-13700F - 32GB Memory - NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4070 TI. Iclone 8, Character Creator 4, Blender, Davinci Resolve studio, Fusion studio

ben  >>> "... I agree completely with both Animagic and Sonic7  on their respective points. For those that wish to streamline the workflow to be done with a shot faster and stay in Iclone the whole way, in app blur and DOF effects can get you close. For those needing a higher production value and towards a more  cinematic DOF, compositing will win every day. Looking forward to what Iclone 7.3 and eventual Iray implementation have to offer ... " <<<
You've summed this up well Ben. iClone *can* produce great results (though I'm not 'up to speed' with the *render engine* side of things - that'll come later).
But I also think *Fusion* is totally amazing and can achieve virtually anything. I'm sold on it (I have my copy - thanks to illusionLAB), and will use it (probably more so later). ATM I'm still endeavouring to maximize the possibilities with iClone. If I were more of a 'switched on' person I'd go more Fusion (for my particuar projects). It's all *time* and *learning* which is slow with me unfortunately.

Later I'll post some results comparing this ●manual B/G blur DOF / ●iClone DOF / ●Fusion DOF.


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Please be patient with me ..... I don't always 'get it' the first time 'round - not even the 2nd time! :(  - yikes! ... 

● MSI GT72VR Laptop, i7 7700HQ 4-Core 3.8 GHz 16GB RAM; Nvidia 1070, 8GB Vram ● iClone-7.93 ● 3DXChange Pipeline 7.81 ● CC-3 Pipeline 3.44 ● Live Face ● HeadShot ● Brekel Pro-Body ● Popcorn FX ● iRAY ● Kinect V2 ● DaVinci Resolve17 ● Mixcraft 8.1