You are right there is a lot the Iclone modeller could do to make life a bit easier for the animator, but the modeler would have to decide who the models are aimed at games or animations, Iclone demands a bit of both.
But equally I say to you that if you demand such diversity from a model than you will need to learn some basic skills.

Basic model editing and image manipulation tool.

Blender and Gimp are a good starting point, this is the only way you will be able to get the perfect models to use.




I Make My Mates Do The CanCan For The Amusement Of Killer Robots:D

Hi Sw00000p,
What took you so long?  I figured this thread would interest you.  :)

I have personally opened enough models to know that some do fill their space and make good use of it, while others do not.

I admit I don't know for a fact if the one Urbanlamb posted was a "good" one or a "bad" one.  But as stated, I've seen my fair share of ones similar to that image where the bounding box is the entire square and is sorely underutilized, so I used it as a convenient way to illustrate my point.

I also understand that an "inefficiently laid out" UV map is not inherently evil.  For example, it can be difficult to "paint" your texture without seams showing up if you don't have the right tool, so if you're painting in Photoshop or GIIMP, it can actually be good if you don't have your model "chopped into pieces.  But sometimes they can make it difficult to make a prop suitable for close-up work without going to a much higher resolution than would have been required had the map been laid out differently.  I know you already know all that.  That's all I was saying.

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iClone 7... Character Creator... Substance Designer/Painter... Blender... Audacity...
Desktop (homebuilt) - Windows 10, Ryzen 9 3900x CPU, GTX 1080 GPU (8GB), 32GB RAM, Asus X570 Pro motherboard, 2TB SSD, terabytes of disk space, dual  monitors.
Laptop - Windows 10, MSI GS63VR STEALTH-252, 16GB RAM, GTX 1060 (6GB), 256GB SSD and 1TB HDD

My point that I have made several times now is that some of the newer Content Store content lacks quality, so there is no guarantee. On the flipside, quality content can be found in the Market Place.

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As a would-be modeller I can't figure out what makes a good model.  I suppose it depends on the end use and the software it will be used in.  But I haven't figured out that completely yet for any software I use (Carrara, Poser, Iclone).

Here is a WIP of a model I started last year and made fairly quick progress with but somehow left before it was finished.  I began work to complete it a couple of weeks ago but have only managed a few hours so far.

The turret video shows that I've made it from over fifty individual parts.  I haven't a clue how many more for the rest of the vehicle but I'm going over the whole thing ADDING detail.  I managed to find references for the engine, the interior and all the underside geometry ... but where does it end?  Most of that will never be seen in any render.  I simply want to push my skills on this occasion - the learning is invaluable - not so much for modelling but for the organisation and method of going about making something complex.

I am looking at chamfering all the sharp edges, which will add a whole new set of polygons for sure. 

For UV mapping and texturing ... I'm an Ostrich right now with my head in the sand.  3D painting is possible in Carrara as are procedural shaders.  I don't think the latter are much use outside Carrara.

I also have 3dCoat - maybe if I get the model finished I will be in a position finally to learn to use it in earnest.

Sorry I can't add much to the main topic being discussed but I suppose it gives another slight insight into the question.

Here is the video and a WIP shot:

https://youtu.be/I2NArCtLRhg

As a developer, I can tell you that you can't please everyone - you can create something that is incredibly detailed, with HiRes textures & folks will complain about use of resources (especially if they are using earlier versions of iClone) .... while if you create  at Mid Res & lower poly, a different set of folks will complain about losing detail on close-ups...
If a customer has a specific requirement, they should contact a developer directly with their specifications - many developers take requests from their client base.
 So my general approach has been to keep the poly counts reasonable with decent textures and make the maps utilize as many pixels as possible & eliminate as much overlap as possible so the end user can alter the textures to suit their needs.  Especially since a lot of the customer base is still using previous versions of iClone. But there are instances where you may want to condense UV's if you're trying to fill a large scene with a lot of items....  

The bottom line for a developer is you will never be able to please all of the people all of the time....  but there are a couple of things you should always do:
1. Ensure everything you build is architecturally square to the world axis (otherwise you may find "wonkiness" when animating parts. Any good builder knows everything must be "square", whether you are building a house (real world) or a house (virtual world)), the basic principles of drafting & engineering apply to both
2. If you are building something intricate, with lots of animated parts and/or animated textures & certain steps must be taken by the user to ensure a proper result, then give them step-by-step instructions.
3. Take the time to ensure you are mapping/texturing your surfaces properly & as a general rule of thumb - eliminate overlap & utilize the entire pixel space (whether you are using newer tools like substance painter or standards like photoshop or gimp, 3ds max, blender, may, whatever you are using the texturing element is an important one)
4. Organize your items for each pack into a well-named file folder convention (there is NOTHING worse than buying a pack with 100+ items & they all get thrown into the general default folders so the user has to play hide & seek with their inventory to find anything).
These 4 points are NOT the total considerations developers should review, but rather what I encounter when customers bring me products made by others asking me to "FIX" it for them (My complete pre-publication punch list is almost 2 pages long LOLOL.....)
These are just my PERSONAL viewpoints .... 

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iClone Certified Content Developer and Author of the Pinky Frink® Adventure Series & the Pinky Frink® Learning Books
site: Granny J's 3D Attic SKYPE = grannyjsplace email: grannyj@grannyjs3dattic.com
MY RIG: GPU: Dual GeForce GTX 970M | CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM)i7-5930K @3.50GHz| 32.00 GB RAM | OS: Win 7 Pro SP1 | DX11

I agree. I hope you didn't assume I was thinking otherwise.




I disagree on that point.  I'll explain why...
I know what you're saying, but sometimes a picture is a picture.  Why waste my time hunting down a picture that in the end, might look exactly the same?  My simple and clear point is I've seen UV maps *like* that one that do not make good use of the space.  I don't know that Lamb's map was bad, but then again, you don't know that it was good.  Either way, visually, it still conveniently supported what I was talking about.

I'm so glad you agree with me.

Well what do you know... we agree again!!!  Thanks for repeating my point.  I mentioned a couple of the tools that would be difficult to work with.  You mentioned a good one.  Two sides of the same coin.

Once again, no argument.  The might have been limited by knowledge, talent, tools, or time.  Or maybe simply they had different goals, and "good enough" was good enough.

Carry on, my friend.

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iClone 7... Character Creator... Substance Designer/Painter... Blender... Audacity...
Desktop (homebuilt) - Windows 10, Ryzen 9 3900x CPU, GTX 1080 GPU (8GB), 32GB RAM, Asus X570 Pro motherboard, 2TB SSD, terabytes of disk space, dual  monitors.
Laptop - Windows 10, MSI GS63VR STEALTH-252, 16GB RAM, GTX 1060 (6GB), 256GB SSD and 1TB HDD

I just want to point out re: marketplace.  I operate under the assumptions most people know what they are doing (maybe that is not right lol but I am am the optimistic type anyhow) if you have models that you want things rearranged its possible just asking the creator to do just that and put up a second model type you need to work differently can solve this problem.   I get the feeling though that the issues are more with content store content where you purchase something and you get what you get and there is no creator to ask to change how something is set up.    Although I do see content from the content store loaded onto the marketplace as well so send them a "hey can you make the model so i can do x with it" and see what the response is.

If the request is reasonable the creator probably will say "sure" if the request is not reasonable they will say no I would imagine.     Anyhow as stated previously by myself and others there is no single way to set up something so that it will be good for all scenarios.    

 I occassionally purchase content from the store (not often though but I do sometimes).   I recently purchased a character with a toon theme from the store for a video I am working on I loaded it in and found it was over 130k poly so alas that was useless for the scene I was working in where i had to make room for 5 or so characters working together.     So as you can see there is no one way to do things that will satisfy people.     If I want to use the character I have to purchase the export version and lower the polygon count by about half or more (50k is my limit per character) .    (or I could contact the creator but i purchased it from the main content store so for me this is not an option)




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"You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes. You can steer yourself in any direction you choose. You're on your own, and you know what you know. And you are the guy who'll decide where to go."
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