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By Alien Maniac - 10 Years Ago
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I have Substance Painter and designer. I am not a modeler. In iClone I have tried to use some of the models/props to paint but the real problem is that the creator of them has not made that possible. The UV maps are so lacking. That means we can only paint or put materials on what UV we have available. This is very bad for us that want to fully custom paint or put on materials to our models and props for a project.
I understand that the Models can be unwrapped and then remapped but that is a huge process (well to me) and so we have to pay someone to do that. I know that modeling is hard work but why not give users of your 3d creations the needed UV Map options?
Quality models and props are an issue too. I saw that Hollywood offers Super Quality items for a Huge price, LOL Yes that is life, you get what you pay for, right? I have made purchases that claimed to be full UV and were not (on other 3d model shops).
What are your thoughts on this? Are you satisfied with your purchased 3d models/props as they are? Can it be done better by the modelers? Should they provide us with full UV maps? Is it too much work for them to do?
I guess my point here is that we do need full UV options on our items we purchase so we can have the options needed for custom painting or adding materials in iClone for our specific needs on our movie projects.
Other than all of us learning 3d modeling is there another solution? iClone gives us a great ability to do so much but without the FULL UV maps we need it seems pointless to buy 3d models/props without them! Also what about the component names too? So confusing and what is this or that area? Such a waste of our time without proper IDs. AND when modelers add things like texts and numbers to items that we can not remove or change without PS? Not all of have PS or experience to do that.
If 3d modelers did this they may actually sell more items.
YOUR THOUGHTS AND KNOWLEDGE NEEDED......
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By urbanlamb - 10 Years Ago
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I have encountered low resolution texturing but I can't say I have come across a model that has not been properly uvmapped unless its made from the primitives from inside iclone. For iclone the uvmapping should be with as few materials as possible (its a real time engine). The lettering well you can download gimp or krita and export the textures and uvmaps there and redo the work. I had purchased a car set in the content store I had to do some heavy duty texture work. It came with a uvmap though so i just opened it up and painted away.
I dont know if substance painter only uses uvmaps does it not require the mesh model? (never used it I assumed it requires the model as well)
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By justaviking - 10 Years Ago
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I agree that a lot (?) of props are not made with good UV maps. Most of the ones I've looked at have made very poor (inefficient) use of the space. Yes, that does make it difficult to paint then, and it is difficult to get top-quality results without resorting to higher-resolution (larger) texture maps.
Maybe that's because I only have a need to work on the 'bad" ones, and the good ones I never feel the need to crack open, so there may be a lot of well-modeled props in the iClone universe. I don't want to offend anyone by painting with a broad brush.
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By bluemidget666 - 10 Years Ago
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Now the problem might be that the model has only one material Id .
in painter this would mean you can only apply one material to the model.
the solution is to assign material ids in a external modelling package.
do you have a Link to the model
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By mtakerkart - 10 Years Ago
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"The UV maps are so lacking"
Can you precise?
But today with the Iclone Substance material oriented , it will be very nice if creators could build an ID mask to use in Painter. I think it could be
done at the same time when texturing and for buyers it will be a very attractive feature for customizing...
And for object wich an over square UV , I use the 3d-coat auto-uv. Not professional way but useable in Painter.
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By Alien Maniac - 10 Years Ago
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bluemidget666
Ahh Thank you, but It isn't about any specific model, this is about all of them.
The point made here is that modelers do not seem to be interested in their giving us the ability to do what we need to do with them for our projects. Many modelers do only make 1 UV or a few and that well, isn't good for us. We need to be able to have full control of the model/s for our needs. That is the whole point of this conversation.
Not all users can deal with that issue. Not everyone has that knowledge or 3d modeling program much less experience. Should we? We have enough on pour plates as it is. The expense and time to learn 3d modeling takes us away from our work time and buying what else we really need.
iClone makes it easy to add materials/textures and such but what good does that do us if we do not have the UV to do it with. As it is we take it or leave it out. That isn't why modelers make models is it? Do we have to use it as is? Apparently so. That does not work for 3d animators does it? We can not change the past ways of 3d modelers but we can change their future ways by bringing this to their attention here and on the web. Personally I do not think that they are even aware of our needs for having all the UV of a model or why it is so necessary for us to have them.
For example: a spaceship, has US or english writings on it. We need some different wording or language or just to remove it. Well no we can not without the UV. Use it as is or find another ship. BUT I like that ship.... LOL Sorry but find another one.
So who loses? The modeler and us. More time searching for another ship for us and the modeler does not have his work used.
All I want to do is bring this to the 3d modelers attention all over the 3d web. Can you help do that too? Yes even on Google Sketchup.
The 3d World is growing tremendously and this is a HOT TOPIC for all to consider. Raise the basic standards of 3d modelers so we can all enjoy doing our work and having it used properly.
The 3d Modeling revolution is here
Thanks to all who do!
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By urbanlamb - 10 Years Ago
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lol i am confused are you saying that when you click this button there is no uvmap? The one with the little squares? I have it set up to open up in krita.
Here is something I got that has lettering on it.. i opened it up in krita and blotted it out.. it had multiple uv channels it opened up the channel.
I find these hard on my set building so i often plop all the uvchannels and stuff in such a way as its one flat map and re-import (if i really like the object) but the uvmap is placed in such a way that you just select everything and make a new material and then bake it all onto a single channel and uvmap. I spent awhile working on how to optimize my sets so i can built large ones that take low overhead. Anyhow I have yet to not find a uvmap on anything I Purchase even if i dont like the texture job I can always find a way to "fix" it so i like it. :)
Anyhow although I like stuff ready to go i have come to realize long ago my standards of what I expect in a prop or character is actually not what everyone wants/expects. So I just "fix" it to be like what I want to use. No biggy there is more then one way to skin a cat as they say, but I have yet to find I could not skin said cat :D
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By bluemidget666 - 10 Years Ago
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Substances alongside your models will become the norm so you can texture as you like then bake out to the less resource hungry single UV but RL have to supply proper PBR substance support before most modellers with work this way.
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By mtakerkart - 10 Years Ago
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Lol!! I'm on a project with ship..!
I'm completely illiterate with UV because it's an authistic asperger concept ;-) and my brain has not the ability to understand. I tried but no success.
But like you I use loooot of free object on the web like this one:
57 meshes with it own material Id with wrong square unit (same as Sketchup object). For me it's a nightmare because I would prefer one or two 4k map.
Clearly better for realtime performance. The less Atlas map the better speed render. And this object is useless in Substance Painter.
I made this in 2 hours , all texturize in Iclone , using the UV settings pannel with tile textures exept for one : the balloon texture with letter , done in 3dcoat.
But yes , it will be very cool if one days there will be only ONE 3d format with ONE textures format.....
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By urbanlamb - 10 Years Ago
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sketchup.. I ignore that :) (maybe that is where these models are coming from? in that case try http://archive3d.net/ they have uvmaps and all kinda cool models
anyhow we are moving towards the less resource heavy with the albedo map. I must confess I already set my stuff up like that but I dont expect that of all assets I just fix it so it works the way I likes it. I think in the world of 3d type stuff at this level one has to be part geek and willing to learn unless you have a lot of money to pay people for everything. I enjoy learning, but I am wierd.
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By Alien Maniac - 10 Years Ago
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urbanlamb
What I am saying is that in the materials editor if the modeler did not make enough Uv (mesh) parts for us to add materials to then we can not add any material/textures to that/those specific part/s.
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By urbanlamb - 10 Years Ago
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Alas I must confess I dont understand if it has a uvmap it can be adapted.
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By Alien Maniac - 10 Years Ago
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Let me explain it this way:
If you have a car.
AND it has 1 uv map.....the car is all one color/material or texture as you set it..
BUT
If it has a UV map for:
Hood, body, doors (L%R), trunk, and so on...........You can fully paint/texture/material/decal each independently.
Load a prop> Click on materials>
You see all the options for each props UVs>
When you choose one of the UV (MESH NAME) and then you can add each type of (Texture settings) as desired.
Does that make sense now? I don't know how else to explain it to you, sorry..
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By bluemidget666 - 10 Years Ago
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i think what the issue Bray42 has is most store bought models have 1 material id, Some Iclone default props have more than 1.
In painter that single material Id means you can only ever apply 1 material to it.
When I model I model with multiple material Ids but need to remove them to apply the baked down Diffuse map.
In Painter you need multiple material Ids to assign materials to.
Its not actually a UV issue its material Ids.
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By urbanlamb - 10 Years Ago
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Bray42 (3/10/2016)
Let me explain it this way:
If you have a car.
AND it has 1 uv map.....the car is all one color/material or texture as you set it..
BUT
If it has a UV map for:
Hood, body, doors (L%R), trunk, and so on...........You can fully paint/texture/material/decal each independently.
Load a prop> Click on materials>
You see all the options for each props UVs>
When you choose one of the UV (MESH NAME) and then you can add each type of (Texture settings) as desired.
Does that make sense now? I don't know how else to explain it to you, sorry..
Yes I understood that at the beginning and as I said this is a lot of materials. In the future and (even now) depending on where you go to purchase things people use a colour id system so its one material and one map and a pile of colour ids (most of the time I am thinking of a single object) . The other way its done is via uvchannels but again its really just one uvmap split up.
This problem will go away when they rest of the pbr system is set up because the solution will be a system similar to what we see inside the Character creator where they are using a colour ID system.
bluemidget666 (3/10/2016)
i think what the issue Bray42 has is most store bought models have 1 material id, Some Iclone default props have more than 1.
In painter that single material Id means you can only ever apply 1 material to it.
Its not actually a UV issue its material Ids.
Yes I think this is it too. I think the solution is coming. Just a matter of time me thinks :)
for now this is what you need to do and I know there is one in substance painter but it does not work as well
IN theory we can create a plugin with an svg node to work in iclone, but last time I checked there was a bug where the substances created with designer 5 would crash if it had this ability to create a colour ID map. I have not checked back to see if this was fixed, but this is what we are missing inside iclone. :)
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By mtakerkart - 10 Years Ago
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@Bray42
As I said the more pictures you have for your mesh , the more ressource your pc need to render. The idea is to Have one big texture picture and (as I said below) if you want paint only the door car you use a MASK ID COLOR (as I said below) it's look like this:
Imagine that the blue area represente the door car area (NOT THE TEXTURE) it's like "selection" in photoshop and Painter will paint only on this.
Whatever texture painter Has.... Same for the other color wich represente the "selection" area of your differents part of you texture....
(Deleted).
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By Alien Maniac - 10 Years Ago
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LOL
Like I stated... I am a 3d Dummy! I am definitely not the guy to be doing this. BUT it is necessary that someone brought it up for discussion and a possible future solution.
All I know is that we are not able to do what we need to do to our models and props with texturing/materials and so on. So from my view, it isn't iClone but the 3d modelers who make them. Am I wrong?
We need more Pros to help out on this discussion.
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By bluemidget666 - 10 Years Ago
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The solution is coming once RL use full PBR you will get many more models customisable by the user.
look at the unity community
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By mtakerkart - 10 Years Ago
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The easiest way to be done : (as I said) Creators have to make a MASK ID COLOR exactly the same as Character Creator do... And you can paint everywhere
you want on your mesh with accurate way.
PBR doesn't matter to paint in selective area.
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By bluemidget666 - 10 Years Ago
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The point of pbr and iclone isn't that its needed , its that no one is making substance based models fir iclone because were all waiting for full PBR
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By urbanlamb - 10 Years Ago
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Its not so easy right now I put up a freebie but you need to create a substance outside iclone and attach it to the model like here https://forum.reallusion.com/273870/Cave-using-substances-and-IDMAP
This needs to be native to iclone at the moment its not really.
Now I must create a customized plugin for each model or make a giant generic one either way this is a very large substance LOL. Reallussion created something called "B2M" that you drag over the model this is a more efficient way of doing it. I see the future being another little one like the B2M but with the SVG node attached designed to create a colour idmap just inside iclone. There are other options that are possible this is just the most obvious one to me.
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By mtakerkart - 10 Years Ago
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Yes Blue I understand but it's just to precise to Bray for not make confusion that we need PBR in Iclone for painting specific area of a texture in Substance Painter app.All props on the marketplace could be use in painter today in a easy way if it have Id color mask. . They could make it right now ;-)
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By urbanlamb - 10 Years Ago
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By justaviking - 10 Years Ago
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urbanlamb (3/10/2016)
Here is something I got that has lettering on it.. i opened it up in krita and blotted it out.. it had multiple uv channels it opened up the channel.
On this topic, and referring back to my post on the first page of this thread...
I find too many UV maps that make poor use of the available pixels. Using "Substances" does not fix that.
In the map shown above, it looks like 75-80% of the space is unused. So if you try to paint lettering, or a bump map, or anything on the object, you will have very few pixels to work with. To make your texture look good, you might need to use a high-resolution texture to compensate for the inefficient UV unwrapping. A better unwrap would probably allow you to get the same result with a much smaller texture map.
Modifying the above map (which you cannot do in iClone)... See how much of the image is used now, and how little is wasted space?
This allows your "decals" (or whatever) to cover many more pixels, making your model look much better without resorting to an unnecessarily high-resolution map.
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By bluemidget666 - 10 Years Ago
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I find too many UV maps that make poor use of the available pixels. Using "Substances" does not fix that.
-------------------
I think thats because 90% of models used in Iclone are really designed around the game asset idea.
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By urbanlamb - 10 Years Ago
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justaviking (3/11/2016)
urbanlamb (3/10/2016)
Here is something I got that has lettering on it.. i opened it up in krita and blotted it out.. it had multiple uv channels it opened up the channel.
On this topic, and referring back to my post on the first page of this thread...I find too many UV maps that make poor use of the available pixels. Using "Substances" does not fix that.In the map shown above, it looks like 75-80% of the space is unused. So if you try to paint lettering, or a bump map, or anything on the object, you will have very few pixels to work with. To make your texture look good, you might need to use a high-resolution texture to compensate for the inefficient UV unwrapping. A better unwrap would probably allow you to get the same result with a much smaller texture map.Modifying the above map (which you cannot do in iClone)... See how much of the image is used now, and how little is wasted space?This allows your "decals" (or whatever) to cover many more pixels, making your model look much better without resorting to an unnecessarily high-resolution map.
The example used was a guy that was using channels so it was actually well layed out it was a largish texture (although in todays terms not so large but its an older asset so at the time it was large) but he used channels so the map was spread over that but once you baked it out flat it would have looked right perspective wise. Yes if it was not a channeled layout and a single texture and nothing was on those empty spaces (but if you looked at the full texture you would see in fact he did have it well set up)
This is actually a model that I was busy flattening to take up less iclone power and making some new textures. There is another thread *cough* asking for more assets from said creator. In conclusion "all is not always as it appears". In the channel method if that texture had been made to take up more space it would have encroached on the rest of the uvmap causing overlap :)
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By justaviking - 10 Years Ago
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@Urbanlamb,
That was a fair reply to my comments.
I just used the picture you provided as a quick and easy image to illustrate my point. I have seen quite a number of models horribly unwrapped that really to waste space like that. I'm not saying they all do, but the definitely exist.
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By animagic - 10 Years Ago
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I've come across the problem in a recent purchase where a single texture atlas was shared among multiple objects in a pack, resulting in very low-res texturing for some objects. They were signs, so it was very obvious, and I had to replace them with my own textures. Although I understand the need for efficiency, I don't think this shouldn't come at the cost of quality. I'm a filmmaker, not a game developer.
EDIT: I wanted to add that in SketchUp (this will make some cringe...:P) you can select something like the door of a car model and select Create Unique Texture (I don't remember the exact wording). Then later in iClone you can adjust the door texture separately.
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By urbanlamb - 10 Years Ago
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animagic (3/11/2016)
EDIT: I wanted to add that in SketchUp (this will make some cringe...:P)
yes some of what sketchup does makes me wriggle in my seat :D
Also I think people need to remember that the "old ways" of doing things are just that ie: the texture uvmap above was created at a time that the business of texturing was much different (its quite an old asset) and you have to map things to take that into account. With newer per pixel methods for instance things have changed a great deal add to that the pbr stuff that everyone wants and the landscape of how its done now is much different. The ability to customize things is therefore changing. So this is another case of waiting for the rest of the bits inside iclone (which we saw them working on in that recent update about things to come).
I also dont think that its possible to create assets to fit all scenarios. So this is where the "part geek" has to be taken into account. Either the asset it designed to be highly customizable that will eat resources and be used in a set with limited props for close ups or its designed for a scenario where its a set decoration where someone is creating a larger scene that obeys "foreground, middleground, background" rules of set decoration. I think all props are useful depending on how they are going to be used will dictate how they are built.
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By Alien Maniac - 10 Years Ago
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" I think all props are useful depending on how they are going to be used will dictate how they are built."
That is a problem for most of the buyers/users. The 3d model maker needs to be aware that other buyer/users may not want the language/text included. If they can not remove it the model is useless to them unless they have the programs and skills to deal with that. Say you need a spaceship and it has english text written on it.......and you need an alien language instead or none at all...that won't work for those that don't have the necessary ability to change it. They can not simply remove it. They would have to pay someone to do that for them.
Not all 3d animators are 3d modelers, right? Not all have photoshop either. I think that the 3d model makers need to realize that and make it easier for those wanting to use and purchase their models.
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By bluemidget666 - 10 Years Ago
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You are right there is a lot the Iclone modeller could do to make life a bit easier for the animator, but the modeler would have to decide who the models are aimed at games or animations, Iclone demands a bit of both.
But equally I say to you that if you demand such diversity from a model than you will need to learn some basic skills.
Basic model editing and image manipulation tool.
Blender and Gimp are a good starting point, this is the only way you will be able to get the perfect models to use.
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By justaviking - 10 Years Ago
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Hi Sw00000p,
What took you so long? I figured this thread would interest you. :)
I have personally opened enough models to know that some do fill their space and make good use of it, while others do not.
I admit I don't know for a fact if the one Urbanlamb posted was a "good" one or a "bad" one. But as stated, I've seen my fair share of ones similar to that image where the bounding box is the entire square and is sorely underutilized, so I used it as a convenient way to illustrate my point.
I also understand that an "inefficiently laid out" UV map is not inherently evil. For example, it can be difficult to "paint" your texture without seams showing up if you don't have the right tool, so if you're painting in Photoshop or GIIMP, it can actually be good if you don't have your model "chopped into pieces. But sometimes they can make it difficult to make a prop suitable for close-up work without going to a much higher resolution than would have been required had the map been laid out differently. I know you already know all that. That's all I was saying.
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By animagic - 10 Years Ago
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sw00000p (3/11/2016)
Now, the RL Content store has High Quality Content.
BigDaddy RL Don't Play Around with garbage. :Wow:
My point that I have made several times now is that some of the newer Content Store content lacks quality, so there is no guarantee. On the flipside, quality content can be found in the Market Place.
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By Grimhilda - 10 Years Ago
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As a would-be modeller I can't figure out what makes a good model. I suppose it depends on the end use and the software it will be used in. But I haven't figured out that completely yet for any software I use (Carrara, Poser, Iclone).
Here is a WIP of a model I started last year and made fairly quick progress with but somehow left before it was finished. I began work to complete it a couple of weeks ago but have only managed a few hours so far.
The turret video shows that I've made it from over fifty individual parts. I haven't a clue how many more for the rest of the vehicle but I'm going over the whole thing ADDING detail. I managed to find references for the engine, the interior and all the underside geometry ... but where does it end? Most of that will never be seen in any render. I simply want to push my skills on this occasion - the learning is invaluable - not so much for modelling but for the organisation and method of going about making something complex.
I am looking at chamfering all the sharp edges, which will add a whole new set of polygons for sure.
For UV mapping and texturing ... I'm an Ostrich right now with my head in the sand. 3D painting is possible in Carrara as are procedural shaders. I don't think the latter are much use outside Carrara.
I also have 3dCoat - maybe if I get the model finished I will be in a position finally to learn to use it in earnest.
Sorry I can't add much to the main topic being discussed but I suppose it gives another slight insight into the question.
Here is the video and a WIP shot:
https://youtu.be/I2NArCtLRhg
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By GrannyJ - 10 Years Ago
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As a developer, I can tell you that you can't please everyone - you can create something that is incredibly detailed, with HiRes textures & folks will complain about use of resources (especially if they are using earlier versions of iClone) .... while if you create at Mid Res & lower poly, a different set of folks will complain about losing detail on close-ups...
If a customer has a specific requirement, they should contact a developer directly with their specifications - many developers take requests from their client base.
So my general approach has been to keep the poly counts reasonable with decent textures and make the maps utilize as many pixels as possible & eliminate as much overlap as possible so the end user can alter the textures to suit their needs. Especially since a lot of the customer base is still using previous versions of iClone. But there are instances where you may want to condense UV's if you're trying to fill a large scene with a lot of items....
The bottom line for a developer is you will never be able to please all of the people all of the time.... but there are a couple of things you should always do:
1. Ensure everything you build is architecturally square to the world axis (otherwise you may find "wonkiness" when animating parts. Any good builder knows everything must be "square", whether you are building a house (real world) or a house (virtual world)), the basic principles of drafting & engineering apply to both
2. If you are building something intricate, with lots of animated parts and/or animated textures & certain steps must be taken by the user to ensure a proper result, then give them step-by-step instructions.
3. Take the time to ensure you are mapping/texturing your surfaces properly & as a general rule of thumb - eliminate overlap & utilize the entire pixel space (whether you are using newer tools like substance painter or standards like photoshop or gimp, 3ds max, blender, may, whatever you are using the texturing element is an important one)
4. Organize your items for each pack into a well-named file folder convention (there is NOTHING worse than buying a pack with 100+ items & they all get thrown into the general default folders so the user has to play hide & seek with their inventory to find anything).
These 4 points are NOT the total considerations developers should review, but rather what I encounter when customers bring me products made by others asking me to "FIX" it for them (My complete pre-publication punch list is almost 2 pages long LOLOL.....)
These are just my PERSONAL viewpoints ....
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By justaviking - 10 Years Ago
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sw00000p (3/12/2016)
JV,
With Respect..... This makes no scenes.
When you see chitty uv's.... that results from a developer with chitty uv skills, period!
I agree. I hope you didn't assume I was thinking otherwise.
justaviking (3/12/2016)
Hi Sw00000p,
I admit I don't know for a fact if the one Urbanlamb posted was a "good" one or a "bad" one.Post what you are sure of, Please. Showing an image and making a blind statement.... No Good.
I disagree on that point. I'll explain why...
I know what you're saying, but sometimes a picture is a picture. Why waste my time hunting down a picture that in the end, might look exactly the same? My simple and clear point is I've seen UV maps *like* that one that do not make good use of the space. I don't know that Lamb's map was bad, but then again, you don't know that it was good. Either way, visually, it still conveniently supported what I was talking about.
I also understand that an "inefficiently laid out" UV map is not inherently evil. Evil... No, but it will NOT yield Optimal results. ANYTHING you do will display a result.... but the idea is to get the highest resolution possible.
I'm so glad you agree with me.
For example, it can be difficult to "paint" your texture without seams showing up if you don't have the right tool, so if you're painting in Photoshop or GIIMP, it can actually be good if you don't have your model "chopped into pieces. Then USE the right tool... Blender is FREE! Perfect Example JV:
~ Make ANY mesh EZ to paint or apply images to. (With the highest possible resolution)~
• Break the UV'S apart.
• STITCH it together properly. For Heads:
Change the default "Bounding Box" setting of (512 x 512) to (512 x 1024)
Well what do you know... we agree again!!! Thanks for repeating my point. I mentioned a couple of the tools that would be difficult to work with. You mentioned a good one. Two sides of the same coin.
But sometimes they can make it difficult to make a prop suitable for close-up work without going to a much higher resolution than would have been required had the map been laid out differently. Often times.... "THEY" don't know how to achive this and give a down and dirty version.
Once again, no argument. The might have been limited by knowledge, talent, tools, or time. Or maybe simply they had different goals, and "good enough" was good enough.
Carry on, my friend.
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By urbanlamb - 10 Years Ago
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I just want to point out re: marketplace. I operate under the assumptions most people know what they are doing (maybe that is not right lol but I am am the optimistic type anyhow) if you have models that you want things rearranged its possible just asking the creator to do just that and put up a second model type you need to work differently can solve this problem. I get the feeling though that the issues are more with content store content where you purchase something and you get what you get and there is no creator to ask to change how something is set up. Although I do see content from the content store loaded onto the marketplace as well so send them a "hey can you make the model so i can do x with it" and see what the response is.
If the request is reasonable the creator probably will say "sure" if the request is not reasonable they will say no I would imagine. Anyhow as stated previously by myself and others there is no single way to set up something so that it will be good for all scenarios.
I occassionally purchase content from the store (not often though but I do sometimes). I recently purchased a character with a toon theme from the store for a video I am working on I loaded it in and found it was over 130k poly so alas that was useless for the scene I was working in where i had to make room for 5 or so characters working together. So as you can see there is no one way to do things that will satisfy people. If I want to use the character I have to purchase the export version and lower the polygon count by about half or more (50k is my limit per character) . (or I could contact the creator but i purchased it from the main content store so for me this is not an option)
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