I am always happy to see new stuff and I dont photomap but I can see them add something to crazytalk like this and I am quite curious to see the directions they are going.  I am not really seeing the huge problem because you dont really need photomapping to create good 3d looks for iclone now since we have the character creator. I think you can achieve superior results without this feature so to me it makes sense to have it in crazytalk as its a more simple software layout.  I also have the crazytalk animator and i want to see what else they are adding to it, but so far all the big stuff has been inside iclone itself.    

I dont photomap though and I am very happy with the Character creator. I truly love it to bits.  I have a friend who picked it up and one of the first things to pop out of it was a charicature of Bruce Willis and he now loves the CC to bits now as well.   Since the CC can do this I dont see the huge need for it inside iclone and actually think considering what it does .. it belongs more with crazytalk since they are adding some 3d ability.  

 I wont be purchasing ahead of time, but will likely be updating my crazytalk animator when it comes out as I enjoy  that for things as well. 

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"You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes. You can steer yourself in any direction you choose. You're on your own, and you know what you know. And you are the guy who'll decide where to go."
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     Dr. Seuss

I wonder if the 3D photo-mapped faces have normal and specular maps generated from them? The pores are probably a normal map, but I wonder if does any other bumping, like eyebrows and wrinkles from the original image? The face-shine (glare) would certainly make that difficult.

I am probably missing something, but what is the difference between 3D CrazyTalk and just doing a headshot in iClone...:unsure:

As to another question, I have CrazyTalk 7 Pro. I have not used it. I also have CTA 2 Pipeline that I never use. I've found that I have no affinity for 2D..:crying:

I can only hope that the upgrade price from CTA 7 Pro to CTA 8 Pipeline will be something reasonable...

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There have been a lot of great comments on this thread.
Justaviking used A LARGE FONT because he was pissed and felt betrayed. His feelings are legitimate, and he's not being unreasonable. I think it is unfair to try to make him feel bad.  
Peter acknowledged that a mistake was made, but it wasn't meant to be manipulative. It was just a big mistake.

Lessons learned:  
Reallusion should not be too specific about what is coming in the future.
Reallusion supporters should not become too attached to what they believe is around the corner.

In fact, maybe Reallusion shouldn't tell us about anything that's coming because surprising us might get the best results.

I don't need the face-mapper at this time, but there could be an opportunity, and I will have a great software from Reallusion that I can buy and it will fit right into the workflow. :D

I encourage Reallusion to keep the software coming. (Hair and Clothes!!)  Build the empire :D

I don't think there is a need to crawl in the dust now and express our eternal gratitude. Financial considerations aside (I'm done with those), there are still many questions about the roadmap that have not been fully discussed in my mind by those who actually have and use iClone 6 (I'm not really interested in "under the hood" lectures). A discussion of the roadmap was the initial purpose of this thread, but, uh well, some of us (including me I'm afraid) got a bit carried away...:blush: 

For example, where will the actual iClone animation functionality reside and what improvements can be expected? There have been postings about an affordable animation tool (with a difficult name with "key" in it), so one idea would be to have an interface with such affordable 3rd-part animation tools.

Also, will the interplay between the various modules be reliable and straightforward? I'm mentioning this because going between CT and IC, which used to be the old method for doing lip-synching pre IC 5, was kind of a hassle.

Also, what is the relationship between facial animation created in CT and the same created in IC? According to some, the quality achievable in CT 7 was better than that in IC5. I can't confirm that but it's a thought. And, yes, the incompatibility between CT and IC was lost and has now been restored.

What can be expected in the way of rendering? Indigo is great for some work, but it is currently a resource hog when trying to render animated scenes of any complexity. A think a better render solution should be part of the road map. I find the native renderer much improved  in iClone 6, but I'm sorry I purchased Indigo (I could have bought CTA 8 Pipeline for that money...:P), as it is mainly unused.

Related to that, where are we with the "plugin" architecture and what role does that play in the roadmap?

I am a sole animator, so team approaches are not a consideration, but an enterprise version may open up a new market. I believe something like that has been suggested some time ago as well. I am interested in a capable and complete solution, so that I don't have to visit too many other 3D programs to get my work done.

I do have a concern that is financial in nature and that is that keeping iClone and supporting software up-to-date will become more expensive if the functionality is spread out. A full iClone suite for me would include 3DX and CT and usually there is no full compatibility between different software generations, i.e., iClone 6 requires 3DX 6.

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Hi animagic

I agree with all of that. Sure we all understand that Reallusion is a commercial company and has to make money to stay in existence. And we all want it to stay in existence, so far. But there are new competitors in the real time animation space out there. They are, as yet, nowhere near as good as iClone. 

Is it possible for Reallusion to irritate the stakeholders out here, the paying customers, so much that they will jump ship? Not as yet, IMO. 

There are threads on this forum that ask for our wish list of new features. That is not enough.

Reallusion as a company shouldn't care about where the development path leads. There are programming considerations involving time and complexity.  Aside from those considerations the users, I think, should be invited to contribute to that development path.


The way I read the forum it seems to me to divide into a number of groups each of which is motivated differently. Obviously others can see different groups, but here's a few: moviemakers, game creators, pre-viz operators, graphic novelists. Each, and there are more I haven't thought of, would have a different wish list. 

Reallusion can either go the Autodesk route and build a massive package for doing everything, or build a central workbench with a plug-in architecture. They seem to be going in the latter direction.

But they also seem to be more focussed on marketing what they already have in order to get more money from their existing users rather than widening that base by making their tools easier and smoother to use, more effective and in line with the .needs of various groups of users. It a simple forecast to see this path will inevitably kill the company.

In this time we live in, a company with a heavily involved user base must absolutely listen to their user base and explain and act and reward their dedication. That way Reallusion will grow, flourish and prosper.

A consummation devoutly to be wished by all interested parties.

______________________________________

Eric (RL)
Forum Moderator

Reallusion, Inc.
https://forum.reallusion.com


"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication." - Leonardo da Vinci

Thank you for your reply Eric and interesting that the Head Creator will eventually become a separate universal module (which seems to fit in better with your roadmap), but leaves me feeling a bit uneasy that even if you buy CT8 to get it you will then need to purchase it again as a separate module?

Also find the statement "Obviously, for development reasons we first had to add this module into CrazyTalk 8, as it is the first step in this multi-tool 3D integration process." Why? Could it not have been a separate module from the off which was bundled with CT8 and available as a separate bought plug-in for Iclone?

And let me also thank you, Eric, for the detailed explanation, but it has also left ME with a huge question: originally I asked whether Pipeline included CT8 or not, and was told it did.  Now you are saying it doesn't?  So you can either get CT8 free for $200 of content, or CT8 Pipeline, which does not include CT8, for $250 in content?

Now I am REALLY confused.  Really, really clarification on this before this pre-order offer goes away.  I want all the tools I may need to do iClone animation -- could care less about anything in CT.  But if there ARE additional animation tools for facial stuff that will only be available in CT8, and that are not part of this Pipeline offer, I need to know (and need to know how the $250 Pipeline offer now differs from the Pipeline that will be offered after it's released, because that's REALLY confusing).

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Alienware Aurora R16, Win 11, i9-149000KF, 3.20GHz CPU, 64GB RAM, RTX 4090 (24GB), Samsung 870 Pro 8TB, Gen3 MVNe M-2 SSD, 4TBx2, 39" Alienware Widescreen Monitor
Mike "ex-genius" Kelley

Hi Kelleytoons,

Thank you for bringing this up. I made a mistake in my previous post, and this is now corrected. For spending $249 on content now, you will receive CT8 Pipeline version for free. For spending $199 on content, you will receive CT8 Pro version for free. We'll have more excellent Featured Developer content that will be released in the coming weeks. Of course the version of interest for iClone folks here will be the Pipeline version, since this is the only version that will enable users to export the 3D head to iClone 6 and Character Creator. 

As for the version, the CrazyTalk 8 Pipeline version will most definitely include every feature CrazyTalk 8 Standard and Pro has to offer, including animation. Simply put, CrazyTalk 8 Pipeline is the "ultimate" version of CrazyTalk 8. 

Check out http://www.reallusion.com/event/CrazyTalk8-Presale/ and scroll down to the bottom for a detailed comparison.

______________________________________

Eric (RL)
Forum Moderator

Reallusion, Inc.
https://forum.reallusion.com


"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication." - Leonardo da Vinci