Profile Picture

Debate on File *Formats* for Editing ...

Posted By sonic7 5 Months Ago
You don't have permission to rate!
Author
Message
sonic7
sonic7
Posted 5 Months Ago
View Quick Profile
Distinguished Member

Distinguished Member (3.8K reputation)Distinguished Member (3.8K reputation)Distinguished Member (3.8K reputation)Distinguished Member (3.8K reputation)Distinguished Member (3.8K reputation)Distinguished Member (3.8K reputation)Distinguished Member (3.8K reputation)Distinguished Member (3.8K reputation)Distinguished Member (3.8K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Last Active: 36 minutes ago
Posts: 1.0K, Visits: 9.7K

This is for those who're accustomed to using a Non Linear Editor for combining or compositing 'layers' to obtain their final video result....
Which would be your *preferred* Format (and Codec) to work with?
The only criteria is that the 'alpha videos' rendered in iClone, can be imported into the NLE and 'layered' (+ adding FX) - to produce the final scene.
I'm interested to hear 'different views & experiences' from anyone doing this... Btw, my NLE is Vegas Movie Studio 15 by MAGIX - the little brother to Sony Vegas - (the currently available formats and codecs are shown in the pic). Any suggestions?...  thnx ... Wink


https://forum.reallusion.com/uploads/images/a860ee72-9635-445b-bd35-086b.png


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Please be patient with me ..... I don't always 'get it' the first time around (sometimes not even the 2nd time Sad  - yikes!... )
● MSI GT72VR Laptop, i7 4-Core 3.8 GHz 16GB RAM, Nvidia 1070, 8GB Vram ● Kinect sensor V2 ● Novation impulse 49 ● ART Voice-channel preamp ● Behringer B2 mic.
● iClone 7 ● 3DXChange Pro ● Character Creator 3 P/Line ● Brekel Pro-Body Mocap 
● iRay ● eon Vue XStream ● Fusion 9 (free) ● Vegas Movie Studio ● Mixcraft Pro-Studio.

Edited
3 Months Ago by sonic7
Kelleytoons
Kelleytoons
Posted 5 Months Ago
View Quick Profile
Distinguished Member

Distinguished Member (14.1K reputation)Distinguished Member (14.1K reputation)Distinguished Member (14.1K reputation)Distinguished Member (14.1K reputation)Distinguished Member (14.1K reputation)Distinguished Member (14.1K reputation)Distinguished Member (14.1K reputation)Distinguished Member (14.1K reputation)Distinguished Member (14.1K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Last Active: 54 minutes ago
Posts: 4.9K, Visits: 9.5K
No real debate -- everyone I know who does animation (and that includes a lot of Pros) just renders to still frames.  So no file "format" to worry about.

For any video they bring in, of course, it's lossless AVI for the most part.  But for iClone projects just render to PNG (which contains alpha) and you're home free.



Alienware Aurora R7, Win 10, i7-8700k, 4.7GHz CPU, 32GB RAM, GTX Titan XP (12GB), Samsung 960 Pro 2TB M-2 SSD, TB+ Disk space
Mike "ex-genius" Kelley
Kelleytoons
Kelleytoons
Posted 5 Months Ago
View Quick Profile
Distinguished Member

Distinguished Member (14.1K reputation)Distinguished Member (14.1K reputation)Distinguished Member (14.1K reputation)Distinguished Member (14.1K reputation)Distinguished Member (14.1K reputation)Distinguished Member (14.1K reputation)Distinguished Member (14.1K reputation)Distinguished Member (14.1K reputation)Distinguished Member (14.1K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Last Active: 54 minutes ago
Posts: 4.9K, Visits: 9.5K
And let me clarify that last -- you don't EVER use a codec until you're ready for final output.  You do not want to be compressing or decompressing your footage until the very end (which is why you work with stills for animation and other rendered stuff, and uncompressed video for the rest).  Only when you are finished do you bring up your final codec (and, of course, you save your project so you can render in different codecs depending on your delivery needs).



Alienware Aurora R7, Win 10, i7-8700k, 4.7GHz CPU, 32GB RAM, GTX Titan XP (12GB), Samsung 960 Pro 2TB M-2 SSD, TB+ Disk space
Mike "ex-genius" Kelley
sonic7
sonic7
Posted 5 Months Ago
View Quick Profile
Distinguished Member

Distinguished Member (3.8K reputation)Distinguished Member (3.8K reputation)Distinguished Member (3.8K reputation)Distinguished Member (3.8K reputation)Distinguished Member (3.8K reputation)Distinguished Member (3.8K reputation)Distinguished Member (3.8K reputation)Distinguished Member (3.8K reputation)Distinguished Member (3.8K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Last Active: 36 minutes ago
Posts: 1.0K, Visits: 9.7K

G'day Mike! 
... Yes - I well remember your advice on this in the past re .PNGs (I hadn't forgotten).
I guess it's more a question of 'once it's in there' (the NLE) .... Do I keep it that way (my PC struggles playing PNG sequences) - or is there a recommended format to transcode into, and if I do, to keep in mind:
● Minimal or no loss to be incurred
● something 'other than' uncompressed, (huge file sizes - just as sluggish)
● keeping the alpha channel as well
???


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Please be patient with me ..... I don't always 'get it' the first time around (sometimes not even the 2nd time Sad  - yikes!... )
● MSI GT72VR Laptop, i7 4-Core 3.8 GHz 16GB RAM, Nvidia 1070, 8GB Vram ● Kinect sensor V2 ● Novation impulse 49 ● ART Voice-channel preamp ● Behringer B2 mic.
● iClone 7 ● 3DXChange Pro ● Character Creator 3 P/Line ● Brekel Pro-Body Mocap 
● iRay ● eon Vue XStream ● Fusion 9 (free) ● Vegas Movie Studio ● Mixcraft Pro-Studio.

Edited
3 Months Ago by sonic7
Kelleytoons
Kelleytoons
Posted 5 Months Ago
View Quick Profile
Distinguished Member

Distinguished Member (14.1K reputation)Distinguished Member (14.1K reputation)Distinguished Member (14.1K reputation)Distinguished Member (14.1K reputation)Distinguished Member (14.1K reputation)Distinguished Member (14.1K reputation)Distinguished Member (14.1K reputation)Distinguished Member (14.1K reputation)Distinguished Member (14.1K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Last Active: 54 minutes ago
Posts: 4.9K, Visits: 9.5K
No -- you do NOT transcode.  You can temporarily render so it plays faster but, again, you hold off any compression until the output.  

Nearly all NLEs will "render" a sequence so it plays faster on the timeline, you just need to find how to do it in yours. 



Alienware Aurora R7, Win 10, i7-8700k, 4.7GHz CPU, 32GB RAM, GTX Titan XP (12GB), Samsung 960 Pro 2TB M-2 SSD, TB+ Disk space
Mike "ex-genius" Kelley
sonic7
sonic7
Posted 5 Months Ago
View Quick Profile
Distinguished Member

Distinguished Member (3.8K reputation)Distinguished Member (3.8K reputation)Distinguished Member (3.8K reputation)Distinguished Member (3.8K reputation)Distinguished Member (3.8K reputation)Distinguished Member (3.8K reputation)Distinguished Member (3.8K reputation)Distinguished Member (3.8K reputation)Distinguished Member (3.8K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Last Active: 36 minutes ago
Posts: 1.0K, Visits: 9.7K

Ahhhh !!! ..... Yes .... I thought I'd read something about 'proxy' files - smaller versions of the originals ....
I get it - yes make the proxy files in Media Studio, Edit and add FX, then when all is complete let it render the *final* using the original PNG sequence .....
OK. Now, the only thought on that is 'will the proxy files' give me accurate enough detail/definition for dialing in my FX?
Hopefully that's a 'yes' - so that the final render hasn't 'changed' compared to my 'off line edit'....



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Please be patient with me ..... I don't always 'get it' the first time around (sometimes not even the 2nd time Sad  - yikes!... )
● MSI GT72VR Laptop, i7 4-Core 3.8 GHz 16GB RAM, Nvidia 1070, 8GB Vram ● Kinect sensor V2 ● Novation impulse 49 ● ART Voice-channel preamp ● Behringer B2 mic.
● iClone 7 ● 3DXChange Pro ● Character Creator 3 P/Line ● Brekel Pro-Body Mocap 
● iRay ● eon Vue XStream ● Fusion 9 (free) ● Vegas Movie Studio ● Mixcraft Pro-Studio.

Edited
3 Months Ago by sonic7
sonic7
sonic7
Posted 5 Months Ago
View Quick Profile
Distinguished Member

Distinguished Member (3.8K reputation)Distinguished Member (3.8K reputation)Distinguished Member (3.8K reputation)Distinguished Member (3.8K reputation)Distinguished Member (3.8K reputation)Distinguished Member (3.8K reputation)Distinguished Member (3.8K reputation)Distinguished Member (3.8K reputation)Distinguished Member (3.8K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Last Active: 36 minutes ago
Posts: 1.0K, Visits: 9.7K

I'll do some testing on this Mike - and report back with my findings (in-case useful to others) .... thnx  Smile

Mark won't understand me (I can see him shaking his head) - "why is Sonic mucking about with 8 bits" ....


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Please be patient with me ..... I don't always 'get it' the first time around (sometimes not even the 2nd time Sad  - yikes!... )
● MSI GT72VR Laptop, i7 4-Core 3.8 GHz 16GB RAM, Nvidia 1070, 8GB Vram ● Kinect sensor V2 ● Novation impulse 49 ● ART Voice-channel preamp ● Behringer B2 mic.
● iClone 7 ● 3DXChange Pro ● Character Creator 3 P/Line ● Brekel Pro-Body Mocap 
● iRay ● eon Vue XStream ● Fusion 9 (free) ● Vegas Movie Studio ● Mixcraft Pro-Studio.

Edited
3 Months Ago by sonic7
mark
mark
Posted 5 Months Ago
View Quick Profile
Distinguished Member

Distinguished Member (7.3K reputation)Distinguished Member (7.3K reputation)Distinguished Member (7.3K reputation)Distinguished Member (7.3K reputation)Distinguished Member (7.3K reputation)Distinguished Member (7.3K reputation)Distinguished Member (7.3K reputation)Distinguished Member (7.3K reputation)Distinguished Member (7.3K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Last Active: Yesterday
Posts: 3.9K, Visits: 10.9K
As they say .png is the way to go for sure. One beauty is you can render at very high resolution and then render the size you need when you're done in your NLE.

Now if you have an audio track you need to match or reference in you NLE I would also render a .wmv or .mp4 file out of iClone for that. The .png image sequence won't have audio as you know. You can then line everything up in your NLE and lay back in your original audio and of course add to your audio tracks mix  and sweeten.


PROMO-BACK2
Click here to go to my YouTube Channel filled with iClone Tutes and Silly Stuff

Visit ANIMATED PROJECTIONS Powered by iCLONE

Intel Core i7 3960X @ 3300MHz Overclocked to 4999.7 MHz Sandy Bridge 24.0GB DDR3 @ 833MHz Graphic Display HP ZR30w 
GeForce GTX 980Ti 6GB  Microsoft Windows 7 Professional 64-bit SP1 ASUSTeK COMPUTER INC. P9X79 WS (LGA2011)



Edited
5 Months Ago by mark
illusionLAB
illusionLAB
Posted 5 Months Ago
View Quick Profile
Distinguished Member

Distinguished Member (1.8K reputation)Distinguished Member (1.8K reputation)Distinguished Member (1.8K reputation)Distinguished Member (1.8K reputation)Distinguished Member (1.8K reputation)Distinguished Member (1.8K reputation)Distinguished Member (1.8K reputation)Distinguished Member (1.8K reputation)Distinguished Member (1.8K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Last Active: 1 hour ago
Posts: 291, Visits: 3.3K
w00t  8 bit files the norm for editing.  Using PNG or TGA sequences are the way to go right up till your 'final output'.  Proxies are a must... I think Vegas calls it "Smart Render".  The industry standard for "offline" editing is AVID's quicktime codec.  Even the "lowest quality" will look almost as good as your original PNG renders, so you're not going to miss anything.  The codecs are free and once installed should just "show up" in your list of options.  As you're in a world of discovery right now... you may want to look at BMD's DaVinci Resolve 15 - I've been using Premiere for eons, but find Resolve much more powerful (now that Fairlight Audio and Fusion in the same software).  Also free.




sonic7
sonic7
Posted 5 Months Ago
View Quick Profile
Distinguished Member

Distinguished Member (3.8K reputation)Distinguished Member (3.8K reputation)Distinguished Member (3.8K reputation)Distinguished Member (3.8K reputation)Distinguished Member (3.8K reputation)Distinguished Member (3.8K reputation)Distinguished Member (3.8K reputation)Distinguished Member (3.8K reputation)Distinguished Member (3.8K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Last Active: 36 minutes ago
Posts: 1.0K, Visits: 9.7K

@Mark .... Yes - what you say makes sense. I've got to get "Video" (and 'codecs') out of my brain when it comes to this work in NLEs.
Seems that the good old 'individual' frames (like in Cine film) or 'flip book' animation, is the way to think.
Yes - well the audio's done and dusted - but I guess it might be an idea to place it inside iClone as a reference for timing.
The clown that 'sings' (mimes) to the finished audio will be *a real actor for the C/Us* and *an avatar for the distant shots*.
I haven't the experience for gaining 'realistic' C/U performances with an avatar.
So - yeah - still a good idea to have a reference audio and do like you say - bring it over to the NLE.... thnx Smile


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Please be patient with me ..... I don't always 'get it' the first time around (sometimes not even the 2nd time Sad  - yikes!... )
● MSI GT72VR Laptop, i7 4-Core 3.8 GHz 16GB RAM, Nvidia 1070, 8GB Vram ● Kinect sensor V2 ● Novation impulse 49 ● ART Voice-channel preamp ● Behringer B2 mic.
● iClone 7 ● 3DXChange Pro ● Character Creator 3 P/Line ● Brekel Pro-Body Mocap 
● iRay ● eon Vue XStream ● Fusion 9 (free) ● Vegas Movie Studio ● Mixcraft Pro-Studio.

Edited
3 Months Ago by sonic7



Reading This Topic