Just to add something to this discussion, the advice given by kt about not compressing until the end is very true for audio, when editing you should use wav or aiff ( the uncompressed avi for audio) or flac which is lossless and half the size of a wav or aiff, for audio that will only be used as a reference you can use mp3 with any quality since they will never be used for final output. And a very very usefull tip for audio mixing: If you are struggling with audio levels, instead of raising the volume for lets say dialogue, try reducing the volume of other tracks instead, this, as stupid as it sounds is one of the top ten audio mistakes everyone does ( even pro engineers)

Thanks Job, forgot about that...but sometimes nice to have a visual reference if needed 



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Great tips ... thanks all .... just 'recappjng' since last post:
@Dennis:
● use "reference audio' track in iClone, then replace that with the 'Master Audio' in your NLE.
● export as PNG sequence or WMV file■■. (Interesting, - more on this below■■) ... thnx

@animagic:
● It's possible to render 'audio only' as .WAV format straight out of iClone 6 or later (it's an option available under 'Video').
● Can try using separate Vegas 'projects' for each scene. Reference these and 'combine' them in a 'Master' project for final render... thnx

@raxel67:
● For master audio use wav, aiff, or FLAC (to retain quality).  Using mp3 is OK for iClone's 'reference' audio.
● To achieve a better audio mix - don't necessarily just 'add' gain to weaker tracks, - you can 'reduce' gain on stronger tracks... thnx

@mark:
● iClone's WAV output is a good idea but if you need a 'Visual reference'  then render out both 'audio & video' together... thnx


■■ Rendering as 'other than' a PNG sequence. If I'm reading you correctly on this Dennis - you would possibly export as WMV?
It looks like 'Vegas Movie Studio 15' can only create 'proxy' files from *video formats* - not from *Image Sequences*. I don't know whether there's a work around for this - but if not, I may be forced to export from iClone in something 'other than' a PNG sequence OR, alternatively, change the PNG into some 'intermediate codec' first. - But I'd have to retain the 'alpha' channel whatever I do 


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Avi is another good choice, and it allows alpha and has the same quality as png

Would I be correct in saying that the 'AVI' output is 'fixed' to a default setting?
There doesn't appear to be any drop down menu to select an AVI codec .... 
Or does 'AVI' mean 'uncompressed'?

EDIT: Looks like it must be 'uncompressed' (the 'Quality' slider goes 'gray' when choosing AVI)
So we're talking 8.3GB per minute for 1080p at 24 fps (8 bit)....
another 'source' says 5.7GB /minute..... oh well - 'a lot' anyway 

.... so 'Export' as uncompressed, then I'd use the 'proxy' generated by Vegas Movie Studio to edit with .... OK! - Let's try that !
(I'll be back!)

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Please be patient with me ..... I don't always 'get it' the first time 'round - not even the 2nd time!   - yikes! ... 

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When exporting as AVI, the settings box pops up after you save your file. It gives you uncompressed, DV, and MJPEG options.

Thanks Rampa  - yes I just did a 'test' (exporting out an 'uncompressed' file) - and noticed exactly what you're talking about - the extra options ...
I saw:
● DV Video Encoder
● Full Frames (Uncompressed)
● Grass Valley HQ Encoder (this is one I'd installed on my PC for a past video project that was edited in a different NLE)
● MJPEG Compressor
OK, so upon importing the 'uncompressed' AVI into Vegas MS, it became evident that it doesn't 'include' the alpha component.
Meaning that when attempting to 'overlay' it (using the next video track 'above'), it totally excludes the video track 'below'.
So now I'm wondering whether uncompressed can even hold 'alpha' information at all.
And if it can't - I'm thinking that's where this 'masking' business I've heard of - might come into play ....

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Please be patient with me ..... I don't always 'get it' the first time 'round - not even the 2nd time!   - yikes! ... 

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Steve,

There is an option in the render panel to just render an Alpha video.


Just select "Export alpha video only"


This does require 2 renders, one with and one without Alpha.


Gerry

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@Steve
Yes, I am speaking heresy.  I sometimes render to WMV (Windows Media) format.  I cannot really defend it.

I have found the WMV files send to be surprisingly compact and, to my eyes, visually acceptable.

I probably do that more when rendering in my NLE (as the final step) than for intermediate files.  I originally assumed .mp4 file formats would be better, but it doesn't seem that way to me; the WMV files are noticeably smaller, and seem to look at least as good*.  I don't know, maybe I'm stuck with some wonky CODECs on my computer.

It depends on what I'm working on, of course, but let's be honest, any "compression" of my video is the least of my problems.    If I'm doing "serious" work, then I will be sure to avoid "lossy" intermediate file format.

SUMMARY:
1) I will usually render iClone to AVI if I'm going to do additional editing in my NLE
2) Will render to sequence of PNG if I'm doing "serious" work
3) Typically use WMV for work-in-progress checks, and often use it as my final output



*Hmm... I might be thinking about "mpeg" format that was always significantly bigger than wmv.  The .mp4 is probably not like that.  I need to double-check a couple of files when I get home.  Sorry for the confusion.

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Thanks very much Gerry .... I exported an 'Alpha video' via that setting, and played around a bit with it in Movie Studio.
It seemed like a lot of jigging around - I mean I couldn't even get it to work - so sort of gave up ....

I can see there's lots of possible 'methods' of getting your action/foreground composited 'over' the top of your background (in a NLE).
Am I understanding correctly?
Seems to me they are:
1. The Ideal >>>> ● Export alpha PNG - done! IF your PC is powerful enough to manipulate them. if not;
2. Next best >>>> ● Export alpha PNG - turn them into 'Proxy Files' IF your NLE 'ALLOWS' proxy creation from PNG. if not;
3. Next best >>>> ● Export alpha PNG - and transcode into another 'lossless format' that will work 'as is' or if still sluggish, use proxy NOW.
4. Otherwise >>>> ● Export an 'uncompressed' video AS WELL AS an alpha video - and use 'masking' in the NLE. (still might have to use a 'proxy' if sluggish).

ALTERNATIVELY:
5. Another way >>>> ● Export as 'uncompressed' video against a color (but not a color that's in the scene) then 'chroma key' - done! IF your PC is powerful enough to manipulate them. IF NOT;
6. Next best >>>>>> ● Export as 'uncompressed' video against a color (but not a color that's in the scene) - use your NLE to create a proxy file then 'chroma key'.

In my case, BOTH 1 and 2 are simply not possible ... and 4. seems too involved and protracted ....
And if I'm not mistaken it's BOTH Movie Studio AND Hitfilm Express that won't allow Proxy creation from PNG's

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Please be patient with me ..... I don't always 'get it' the first time 'round - not even the 2nd time!   - yikes! ... 

● MSI GT72VR Laptop, i7 7700HQ 4-Core 3.8 GHz 16GB RAM; Nvidia 1070, 8GB Vram ● iClone-7.93 ● 3DXChange Pipeline 7.81 ● CC-3 Pipeline 3.44 ● Live Face ● HeadShot ● Brekel Pro-Body ● Popcorn FX ● iRAY ● Kinect V2 ● DaVinci Resolve17 ● Mixcraft 8.1