This is very interesting here. This creates a controller which will work inside iclone? Am I understanding this correctly.


This is great if I'm reading this right. Because in Lightwave you create control points I can't bring those in to Iclone but you add these extra bone to create control points.

Your right you don't learn as much with the auto rigging and in the end once you learn how to rig it will be as simple as auto rigging. But I still appreciate the help from all. 
 I am the guy who 3-4 years back felt like he was cheating using pre-bought motions for a character. So I started learning to do my own motions by hand creating walk cycles and studying every aspect of animation I could get my hands on. learning the twelve principles of animation established by the 9 old men. So I do want to learn rigging fully. But I do like to know all avenues. I do not mind, now using a mix of pre-bought motions, motion capture and hand created motions because I am wanting to tell stories in the end not just animate.

So please continue with sharing your knowledge on rigging....

You words speak for themselves.

Animation:
~ Guilt: You felt bad for using pre-made motions.
~ Pride: You learned "HOW" to do it.
~ Result: You learned to animate.

STOP and really understand "HOW" you learned to animate.
1. You obtained EXCELLENT reference instruction.
1. You used ONE app to do it.

Pick your poison and stick with it.
~ Lightwave is your "Ace-Coon-Boom."...."Your Bees's Knee's.".... Your Cat's AZsprin" 
~ Your go to software.... USE IT.

WHY????
...because you spent a lot to time "Learning HER TOOLS."
__________________________________________________________________________________

paulg625,
You are WILLING to get under-the-hood.
You follow directions, very well.

You have only ONE very large hurdle left to jump..... STOP JUMPING FROM SOFTWARE TO SOFTWARE.
....Today, it is TOO difficult. (For You)
It's hard enough to learn one apps tools.... let alone... learning another apps tool usage.
STICK WITH LIGHTWAVE.
_________________________________________________________________________________

paulg625,
Maintain your existing learning methods and apply THIS LOGIC:

Animation:
~ I want to do this and add that.
~ In "Lightwave" I would do this, then do that.
You KNOW how to make it happen because you KNOW how to use Lightwave's TOOLS.

...to be continued.

paulg625,

RIGGING: 
(Learn the LOGIC)
(Learn the TOOLS)
.....everything falls into place.

paulg625,
Just as you learned.... a motion is a motion..... how to add or subtract from it requires tool knowledge.
A bone is a bone and here is the LOGIC.

First and foremost.... DON'T JUMP THE GUN.
Yes, control points are created..
NO.... You can NOT use them in iClone (THE WAY THEY ARE)
Remember..... After all this.... you MUST adhere to what ICLONE NEEDS.
That is a simple FK skeleton skinned to bones. (No Control Points..... just FK bones and skin).

paulg625,

If you have the time to learn how to control (2) bones.... "That are NOT directly connected together...your rigging problems will be solved.
You will be able to rig ANYTHING.... human, creature, robot, etc., etc..
~ Place bones where YOU want them and zero them out for animation.

Logic: (Coordinate Axis)
Control a Parent and Child bone.

Remember, in ICLONE...
The child will inherit:
~ Position
~ Rotation
~ Scale

Example 1 (Easy)
1. Parent - Head bone
2. Child - Eyebrow bone

Link the eyebrow bone to the head bone.
75% of original size (was 670x19) - Click to enlarge

Now if you move the eyebrow bone..... The Head bone WILL MOVE.
75% of original size (was 670x19) - Click to enlarge

Control: You want to move the eyebrow bone and have the head REMAIN where it is.
BREAK the hierarchy.... add a null object.

Give the eyebrow bone a (Point Helper) as its parent.
Link the new parent (point helper) to the head.
75% of original size (was 670x19) - Click to enlarge

NOW you can move the eyebrow and the head will NOT move.

You now have (2) points of control
~ Animate the bone
or
~ Animate the point helper
75% of original size (was 670x19) - Click to enlarge

Let me know if you clearly understand and I'll continue.

NEXT: EYES

ButOfCourse:  yes it is clear Ready for next step. Thank you this is great...

You are correct I have trouble and couldn't find info about Lightwave:  The bad : I love Lightwave it is my go to software. (I want it to be my go to ) 
The Good: when I was checking out Blender I discovered what I believe is a solution to my problem in Lightwave...

But I agree I need to stick to my main workflow because I'm too old to learn 10 different softwares.  Plus don't want to be Jack of all trades just master a couple...  I will follow this advice....

Question:  About the helper I know It would work in Lightwave as a controller.  Will it be usable as controller in Iclone?  Or just there in Iclone?

BINGO!...   ...we are on the same page! :cool:
"Huston, Fire Up the Rockets!" :Wow::hehe:

I'm afraid to answer your question, pertaining to the use of controllers.
YES, Of Course You Can...
BUT....
Not right away..... you need to "Script the Bones."
THIS.... is not a beginner's task.

FIRST, you learn to control (2) bones, then you add (Advanced) functionality to those bones....
Then you embed the functionality into those bones with (Scripting).

Sir. I MUST be careful here or... "I will lose you."
why???
You need MORE Lightwave tool experience.
The only way to achieve it is... More Lightwave tutorials.

I will keep it simple... and the more you LEARN about Lightwave's tools,
The Sooner you advance to "Scripting Bones."
_________________________________________________________________________

paulg625,
Please maintain you course of action..... "Learning to Rig from SCRATCH."
I promise you.... you won't be sorry.

Again.... Controlling (2) bones with Lightwave's tools is the key!;)
I've only begun showing you "HOW" to control a bone.

1. The Brow example is "Position" control. (The simpliest)
2. The Eyes.... is where you REALLY start learning.

3D Rotation... is a Mother... to FULLY grasp (when you first start)
BUT....
I will make it easy for you.

Note:
If you continue to follow me..... YOU will slowly begin to see (FIX'S) for iClone.
You will solve many problems iClone users have, TODAY.
Simply by learning how to control (2) bones. :w00t:

paulg625,

Crossroads.... there comes a time when serious artist (with a limited budget) MUST decide which way to go.
....meaning:

Goal: (CGI Animated Clip)
You want to save money... You learn to:
~ Model
~ Rig
~ Texture
~ Animate
~ VFX / Post

Use iClone and accept all of the awesome functionality SHE provides...
THEN.... make it better.

How??
I need to put a face rig on this one.
or...
I need to SCRIPT this baby.

Crossroads: "Do you learn a scripting language and script a face rig, or do you learn to Rig and create it yourself???":Whistling:
First, I am NO programmer.
BUT....
I can script the chit out of bones. (Using MaxScript)

why?
I did it over and over (1 million times)... copying and pasting script.... until it sunk in!

I can briefly explain the function and methods used to achieve an interactive execution of the script,
BUT....
I do NOT get into "SCHEMEA" or whatever the heck it's called.
I can NOT come close to people like "KellyToons", "animagic" and the likes.

I learned to rig for production.
with that said....

3D Rotations:
Certain rules remain constant.... No Matter what 3d software you use.

Bones: Parent / Child relationship (Hands & Fingers)
(X,Y,Z) .... the middle axis is (Y)
Rotate the child (BEYOND 90 degrees) and the bone will FLIP.

One way to fix this.... "Change the Axis Order" (From X,Y,Z) to (X,Z,Y)
Learn your software's tools.

paulg625,

Eye Rotation:.... also introduces you to building Facial User Interface... Like Reallusion's Face Puppet.
...using the previous example, "Brow and Head"

Now when you skin the character the eye rotates correctly.
75% of original size (was 670x19) - Click to enlarge

I understand

I will work the next few weeks as I get time reviewing my Rigging tutorials and experimenting with a simple 2 bone rig.

paulg625,
Please maintain you course of action..... "Learning to Rig from SCRATCH."
I promise you.... you won't be sorry.

Again.... Controlling (2) bones with Lightwave's tools is the key!;)
I've only begun showing you "HOW" to control a bone.

1. The Brow example is "Position" control. (The simpliest)
2. The Eyes.... is where you REALLY start learning.

3D Rotation... is a Mother... to FULLY grasp (when you first start)
BUT....
I will make it easy for you.

Note:
If you continue to follow me..... YOU will slowly begin to see (FIX'S) for iClone.
You will solve many problems iClone users have, TODAY.
Simply by learning how to control (2) bones. :w00t:

Cool sounds great!!!