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How to Create a face bone rig?

Posted By paulg625 8 Years Ago
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How to Create a face bone rig?

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but0fc0ursee
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Yes, build a complete rig in LightWave. Get Her working "Just Right"...
Then...

Rigs.... Importing / Exporting:
~ "MATCH" the export setting for ICLONE'S needs.
~ Make sure your "ROOTS Up Axis" matches iClone.
Hopefully you find the "Correct" settings for 3dxchange import.
____________________________________________________________________________

I found this on CG Society. Hopefully it helps you.
"Click Here" ---> LightWave's Rotation Axis <---

Question:
"Is it possible to arbitrarily reassign the rotation axes of a lw bone without moving it?"

Answer:
You can definately produce good rigs here but you have to think about it in a diff. manner than you do in say Maya. 
As for switching Axis. --- You can change Heading and Pitch around fairly easy, but not bank. Grab your bone you want to change Rotated till the Pitch and Heading are in the right direction and Items>Pivot>RecordPivotRotation. Then fix your skinning by hitting "r" ... I know sux you have to rotate the bone to do that and thus screwing up the rest of your rig maybe. I dont know a safe way of doing it without rotating the bone. I suggest going back to skelegons and change the lollypop thing to face the way you want pitch to be and things will go much smoother. Im going to paste part of a previous post for ya dunno if it will help but i hope so. i wrote it for somebody a whle ago. Its my bible i use when riggin hehe and seems to work well. ITS mega important you do these things in the right order.
-------------------------------------
1. Make Skelegons 
Make all your skelegons in modeler dont worry about parenting at this point. (make the root 1st) the better the order you make em later it will help so you can just hit up and down arrows to walk up and down your skeleton.
2. Detail>Edit Skelegons 
Edit skelegons on ALL of your bones, and make the lolly pop point in the direction you want pitch. Remember bank is always the twist of the bone and Pitch and Heading are determined by this lollypop looking thingamagig. Do this to every bone (pitch should go in the direction the joint bends the most i would say. Cause say on the fingers you make pitch the rotation that rotates your fingers then you can use "Joint Compensation" (which only works with pitch) to help with pinching when you start SKINNING 
3. Convert to Bones
Put everything you want skinned on layer 1... Put ALL your bones for that skin in Layer 1.... Put any object you want parented in its own layer. Say you parent a hat to your head. Put that in layer 2 and go to DETAIL>Layer Settings and name it "HAT" so in layout you will see HAT, not Layer 2 etc. After loading up your ready to go model go ITEMS>ADD>BONES>CONVERT SKELEGONS INTO BONES... and then move to step 4 
4. PARENTING
NOW its ok to parent anything But you have to make sure you parent everything at this point if you forget something and try to do it later you might run in to big problems as i did, and they are killers. So parent all face bones like eyes if you do so to the head, head to neck. Something i forget sometimes is the Collars to the 3rd back bone, or 4th whatever you prefer. Both thighbones or your twist bone whatever you do fer your legs to the hips... so after all parenting is done and your sure move to 5.
5. RECORD PIVOT ROTATION
now for everybone .. EVERY bone hehe ITEMS>PIVOT>RECORD PIVOT ROTATION i coudn't do all at once so you kinda have to do every one, one at a time. And you will know you have em all when you hit UP arrow fast on you bones and you see in the Numaric display that there are ALL 0, 0, 0 for all rotations on all bones You do this step because it Zero's out your rotation.. now if you want your back at its original spot just pick the bone and hit "n" and type 0 0 0 and woot back to original rest spot. OMG don't forget to have AUTOKEY ON. won't work without. Trust me
6. Now you can either start your skinning or continue with the rig. I think i just made my IKs here and all my little null objects and special things, like i have a null object ring around the waist and i hit that and it redirects my selection to the root, so i dont have to go looking for it and my mouse stays at my character. As for skinning read Timothy Albee's book hes perty much right on i think.
paulg625
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but0fc0ursee (10/26/2017)
paulg625,
I created this rig (5) years ago and use it over and over and over.
...I also have (1) rig for quadrapeds and (1)  for robots, too.
Re-Purposing a rig really pays off.

Did you create the face rig, yet?




 No haven't created a facial rig yet. But am following your advice. 
I have been studying aspects of Lightwave animation and Rigging looking at how to do the things you showed me in lightwave.
The time I have spent "hands-on" in Lightwave have been spent working on  FBX import  

This seems to be the Achilles of many programs. Due to the fact that everyone goes there own way when using the SDK for FBX.
Example : Daz characters transfer fine into Lightwave (depending on version of Daz)
Iclone currently : does not. One reason is they place the mesh at bottom of the hierarchy which confuses Lightwave. 
 
I have studied many videos and have crossed a few hurdles. I can now get the mesh working with the bones in Lightwave.
But as you said

 When first learning.... the fbx display of bones IS NOT how the rig is constructed.
(When Exported....  FBX creates NEW connections... Displaying all bones linked to the ROOT.) "


Why does it do this? I noted it when bringing in a character into Lightwave. and How will it affect if going back and forth between two applications  ?


Here is what I am thinking I need to do for my work flow now : What do you think?
  1. Create a rig which works well in Lightwave and has all the  controls i want.
  2. Export this rig to Exchange get it working there (skinned of course)
  3. apply the motions I want to this rig.
  4. export the FBX motions ( Including facial because bone facial will transfer and allow me to do my fine detailing in Lightwave)
  5. motion blend the file.
  6. tweak the motion to what i want.

Then  back in Lightwave where I will have much greater control over my rig.


"First and foremost.... DON'T JUMP THE GUN.
Yes, control points are created..
NO.... You can NOT use them in iClone (THE WAY THEY ARE)

Remember..... After all this.... you MUST adhere to what ICLONE NEEDS.
That is a simple FK skeleton skinned to bones. (No Control Points..... just FK bones and skin)."


So this is why I'm looking at Lightwave work flow options before committing to absolutes. I don't want to jump the gun.

" Place bones where YOU want them and zero them out for animation."

This seems to be part of the problem when coming into Lightwave the bone orientation is incorrect. Lightwave can bring in as Bones or Lightwave Joints. But I was told joints create an offset problem. So trying to work out Bone issue which is where the idea of trying to bring a rig out of lightwave into Exchange came from Plus your info.

Sir. I MUST be careful here or... "I will lose you."
why???
You need MORE Lightwave tool experience.
The only way to achieve it is... More Lightwave tutorials.

This and the FBX import is what I'm working on I have found a couple of Lightwave guys who have helped me fill in a few lightwave gaps.
Plus watching all I can on rigging for lightwave. 

Please maintain you course of action..... "Learning to Rig from SCRATCH."
I promise you.... you won't be sorry.


This is what I think will work best for what my goal is anyway. Build a rig which works in Lightwave then get it to import into Exchange then should come back correctly. 


ButOfcOursee: Do you agree?

So this is where I am:  I have a training series from a Rigging guy who uses lightwave. Going to spend the next few days as I have time looking at it... 

Then on to Rig Building !!!


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paulg625,
I created this rig (5) years ago and use it over and over and over.
...I also have (1) rig for quadrapeds and (1)  for robots, too.
Re-Purposing a rig really pays off.

Did you create the face rig, yet?


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I need to cheat and use Mocap and pre-created animation and then use my animation skills to make it flow correctly and also to look correct for an animated character.
That's.... NOT cheating.... that's how we learn.
Note:
I'm not foolish enough to call myself an "Animator."
~ I blend mocap
...a.k.a. "Mocapper!"

WE.... have the same goals.
~ Animate when absolutely necessary, otherwise blend mocap.

The first and My primary interest is to bring in my Mocap animations as FBX re-target the data onto a well rigged character so I can refine and tweak the motions.  Or build the motion if needed on a good rig.

This is how I accomplish "EXACTLY" that:
~ Build (1) Humanoid Rig for Production.
This baby has "embedded functionality" for "Animation - facial mocap" and more.

Jason Osipa Rig.... from "Stop Staring"
~ With "Poses" - "Morph Targets" - "Phonemems" - "Visemes":Wow:
Not simple morph animation.... "The BONES FOLLOW THE MORPHS!"

When re-targeting animation and or "Fixing animation."
....I add the functionality that ICLONE does NOT have.

~ BLEND IK-FK
This alone will speed up production ...twice as fast, because you have the ability to "Blend" instead of tweaking.... bone by bone.

Now Quickly Switch to "FK MODE"

iClone Blending Problems:
~ Add functionality to the "FEET" to automate the process.

Now you can match ANY motion for smooth blending.
76% of original size (was 663x19) - Click to enlargehttps://forum.reallusion.com/uploads/images/5b4a59d6-8da2-42ae-8846-df00.png

76% of original size (was 663x19) - Click to enlargehttps://forum.reallusion.com/uploads/images/a694d5d4-ef26-4aec-a66f-a786.png

Today.... I do a lot of "Drag 'N Drop...
Poof! :)

Are you able to learn Lightwave's tools to accomplish this? 
Have you created the face rig, yet?  :Whistling:


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but0fc0ursee (10/26/2017)
Re-targeting This I want to understand, this seem vital to know. Through my recent study I have touched on this...

What did you learn?

_______________________________________________________________________

Note:
My animation question was to explain that "Animating" and "Blending Motions" are two different things.
If you really intend on "Animating".... you need to build "Controllers & Advanced Functionality" on you rig. (To speed up production)
...if not..

Create a simple FK skeleton and blend motions in iClone.


Yes I understand what you mean. I want to do the job which would require a dozen animators. I don't know how to do that much using just animation skills I need to cheat and use Mocap and pre-created animation and then use my animation skills to make it flow correctly and also to look correct for an animated character. Because sometimes mocap looks fake when applied to an animated character, Disney found this when trying to use roto-scoping and the characters seemed to float which is were some of the 12 rules of animation came from.
 So I believe to do what I want to do. I have to use this workflow to create what I want to accomplish.
 What I need to have is a bit of both worlds due to my intended goals. I need to be able to use some blended motions and do some animations. So I need good controllable rigs but also need to be able to use some of the retargeting functions. So I can use each tool I have to the fullest in my intended workflow, to produce the best animations I an capable of.  When I was learning to animate it was slow process and would have been quicker if I understood then how to create controls and functionality.

 Due to my current goals which is to tell stories and I'm working primary on my own. I say primary because I do purchase assets from other artist. But in the end it's just me. So with the scope of my Dreams I need to be able to animate dozens or more characters. 
So I feel I must use pre-packaged or Mocaped animations as a skeletal base then tweak this to an acceptable level of realism and I don't want it to look like packaged animations. Plus for example in the animation I currently working on I am animating a cat. I will have to create a lot of the specific animations myself.   

Right now I am looking at 3 primary avenues of getting into lightwave animation: The first and My primary interest is to bring in my Mocap animations as FBX re-target the data onto a well rigged character so I can refine and tweak the motions.  Or build the motion if needed on a good rig.  

If I was 20 and looking for a career I would just study rigging and animation. Not 50 looking to chase a dream and have a indie hobby business. I need to be able to wear all the needed hats required to create a full animated short. My actual goal is to create a short series or one really good movie length item a year. But I must learn to crawl before learning to fly.

If you have methods using only animation skills to accomplish these goals and would be willing to share. I am willing to learn as my cup is empty and ready to be filled. As I am trying to learn as much as I can to help achieve my goals. I truly appreciate all you have shared with me so far. 

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Re-targeting This I want to understand, this seem vital to know. Through my recent study I have touched on this...

What did you learn?

_______________________________________________________________________

Note:
My animation question was to explain that "Animating" and "Blending Motions" are two different things.
If you really intend on "Animating".... you need to build "Controllers & Advanced Functionality" on you rig. (To speed up production)
...if not..

Create a simple FK skeleton and blend motions in iClone.
paulg625
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but0fc0ursee (10/22/2017)
Sir,
You are most welcome.

Quick Question:
Rigging: "What's you ultimate goal?"
~ Animate using only iClone?
~ Blending Motions using only iClone?


Rigging goal: Understand rigging well enough to build or modify a rig in order to accomplish or speed up my work flow.
Animation: Although I want to limit the programs in my work flow and Iclone is a major part of my work flow I plan on using which ever tool I have available to accomplish my goal.
Blending motions: Same as above which ever tool gets the job don in the end. No single program is a Swiss army knife... But still want to limit my work flow to a few main programs. Iclone, Lightwave, Adobe and in a pinch Blender. 



Rigging for iClone is very EZ
~ Draw out an FK Skeleton
~ Add facial bones and point helpers
~ Link the bones
~ Zero them Out
~ Skin it

Then you:
~ Select all of the bones and point helpers and (Set A Key).
...this maintains your starting pose... TPose

Move away from your first frame (where the TPose key is set) and....
~ Move the bones and helpers to create your first morph target.

~ Then move back to your starting frame (to RE-GAIN your TPose)
..then move to frame 2 or 3 and create your 2nd morph target.
....repeat until finished.
~ Off to 3dxchange.
______________________________________________________________________________

The above is all you need to import characters to iClone.
BUT....

If you plan on: (Adding functionality that iClone can NOT do)
~ BLENDNG IK-FK
~ Using LightWave's "Motion Mixer"
~ Orientation constraining (2) or more objects.


 Yes this part interests me.


Please say so, now.
why?
I will show you how to "Isolate" your rig.

LightWave's Mix Motions:
You may want to change one arm or leg motion to another one.
This is (Re-Targeting) animation.


Re-targeting This I want to understand, this seem vital to know. Through my recent study I have touched on this...


An iClone avatar bones:
~ Shoulder
~ Upperarm
~ Forearm
~ Hand and Fingers
....are all linked (Directly) together.

__________________________________________________________________
Changing that limbs animation WILL cause undesired reslults.
why?

Remember: Parent - Child
~ The child inherits Position - Rotation - Scale.

The Shoulder and Upperarm bones do NOT have the SAME (Local Orientation Axis)
Negative scale WILL transfer from the shoulder to the upperam.
(chitty result):pinch::crying:
______________________________________________________________

The iClone bones are directly linked together and WILL "Transfer Negative Scale."
You inhibit this behavior with Rigging. You break the FK hierarchy with point helpers.



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Sir,
You are most welcome.

Quick Question:
Rigging: "What's you ultimate goal?"
~ Animate using only iClone?
~ Blending Motions using only iClone?

Rigging for iClone is very EZ
~ Draw out an FK Skeleton
~ Add facial bones and point helpers
~ Link the bones
~ Zero them Out
~ Skin it

Then you:
~ Select all of the bones and point helpers and (Set A Key).
...this maintains your starting pose... TPose

Move away from your first frame (where the TPose key is set) and....
~ Move the bones and helpers to create your first morph target.

~ Then move back to your starting frame (to RE-GAIN your TPose)
..then move to frame 2 or 3 and create your 2nd morph target.
....repeat until finished.
~ Off to 3dxchange.
______________________________________________________________________________

The above is all you need to import characters to iClone.
BUT....

If you plan on: (Adding functionality that iClone can NOT do)
~ BLENDNG IK-FK
~ Using LightWave's "Motion Mixer"
~ Orientation constraining (2) or more objects.

Please say so, now.
why?
I will show you how to "Isolate" your rig.

LightWave's Mix Motions:
You may want to change one arm or leg motion to another one.
This is (Re-Targeting) animation.

An iClone avatar bones:
~ Shoulder
~ Upperarm
~ Forearm
~ Hand and Fingers
....are all linked (Directly) together.

__________________________________________________________________
Changing that limbs animation WILL cause undesired reslults.
why?

Remember: Parent - Child
~ The child inherits Position - Rotation - Scale.

The Shoulder and Upperarm bones do NOT have the SAME (Local Orientation Axis)
Negative scale WILL transfer from the shoulder to the upperam.
(chitty result):pinch::crying:
______________________________________________________________

The iClone bones are directly linked together and WILL "Transfer Negative Scale."
You inhibit this behavior with Rigging. You break the FK hierarchy with point helpers.

paulg625
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Thank you very much butOfcOursee. This is really cool. I know it will take time to learn the ins and outs of how to do in lightwave but now I see a goal. And I'm not afraid because it is amazing how much this is like setting up a control software system. It makes sense of course because it is based on modern OOP programing which is one of my stomping grounds.  I will continue working on reviewing rigging basics and start looking into creating facial rig controllers in Lightwave it will make a great compliment to Iclone and my work flow...

but0fc0ursee (10/21/2017)
paulg625,
Look closely.... this is NOT simple morph animation..... THE BONES FOLLOW THE MORPHS.
You can export this ANYWHERE. 
~ After Effects
~ HitFilm
~ Premiere Pro  /  Vegas
~ Game Engines
ANYWHERE! 

..and they tell you... the steps I explain are not necessary.
Your choice.  :unsure:

I do see the potential because I have seen a few cool characters which have no rigging or morph which I would like to use for one reason or another. Now (when I get up to speed) bang drop in a bone rig and like you said copy the curves over and this non morph prep character is talking and expressing!!!



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paulg625,
If you have time to learn how to make bones... properly follow morphs/Blendshapes....
FACEWARE...

You break out the curve editor and simply copy each FW morph animation TRACK (Position & Rotation).
~ Paste it (as an INSTANCE) to your morphs.
...Remember, you made the bones follow your morphs.

Result:
POOF! ...you just re-targeted FW mocap....  to BONES.
A professional technique use throughout CGI. :)


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