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WINNERS - Game Character Animation Contest

Posted By Realtimer (RL) 4 Years Ago
Rated 3 stars based on 2 votes.
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grabiller
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Hi,

Not that I want to ruin the party here but imho some comments need to be made regarding the results of this contest.
While I understand the rules of the contest and the fact that Reallusion is not alone in the voting process, at least two results puzzled me:

1) First, the "Best Character Animation" won by Alvin Snerling, aka Wungun.

While I'm not questioning the obvious talent of the author and the work done for his entry, I'm a bit puzzled by the fact that the "Best Character Animation" has been won by a production using mostly Motion Builder for animation, a $xxxx figures software. Imagine an Hexagon modeling contest where most of the modeling would have been done in ZBrush then Hexagon used to make some screenshots for the entry.
This must be very frustrating for the contest participants who tried to do everything in iClone and don't have access to this kind of high priced applications.

It's like if the message given to the public is:
You have no chance to win an iClone *animation* contest by using the built-in tools only.

To be fair, it is unclear what was the Reallusion "weight" in the voting process for this entry, compared to the other sponsors.

2) For the "Best Use Of iClone" I think the Reallusion "weight" in the voting process is a bit clearer, if not obvious.

But here too, I'm still puzzled by the result. Again, I'm not jugging the talent nor the quality (or quantity) of the (clever) work done by the author, Adof Navarro, but how a video background based animation production has been granted the "Best Use of iClone" price.
To be honest, most of the beauty of the shots of this entry come from the original video backgrounds. While there is certainly a great job done for the characters and the integration and compositing in Vegas to complete the shots, if you remove those video backgrounds then you are left with big holes.
Don't get me wrong, I like the result, it is a clever use of iClone, for sure, but the "Best Use" ? Again, this must be very frustrating for those who tried to do everything in iClone without resorting to video backgrounds because they couldn't create those backgrounds in iClone.

It's like if the message given to the public is:
The best use of iClone is to do most of the work outside of iClone (especially for the sets/backgrounds: use videos, or 3d rendered in an another product, whatever..) then just add your avatars and props on top of it.

This sounds like "Crazy Talk" to me ; )

Both entries surely deserve a price nonetheless, my point being the category in which they won the price and the judges criteria.

Anyway, congrats to all the winners.

Cheers,
Guy.


--
guy rabiller | citizen guy | 3d technical director | youtube channel
not an animator, "idirector" perhaps - the audience will decide, icloner for sure.

wungun
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grabiller (8/6/2015)

Hi,

Not that I want to ruin the party here but imho some comments need to be made regarding the results of this contest.
While I understand the rules of the contest and the fact that Reallusion is not alone in the voting process, at least two results puzzled me:

1) First, the "Best Character Animation" won by Alvin Snerling, aka Wungun.

While I'm not questioning the obvious talent of the author and the work done for his entry, I'm a bit puzzled by the fact that the "Best Character Animation" has been won by a production using mostly Motion Builder for animation, a $xxxx figures software. Imagine an Hexagon modeling contest where most of the modeling would have been done in ZBrush then Hexagon used to make some screenshots for the entry.
This must be very frustrating for the contest participants who tried to do everything in iClone and don't have access to this kind of high priced applications.

It's like if the message given to the public is:
You have no chance to win an iClone *animation* contest by using the built-in tools only.

To be fair, it is unclear what was the Reallusion "weight" in the voting process for this entry, compared to the other sponsors.

2) For the "Best Use Of iClone" I think the Reallusion "weight" in the voting process is a bit clearer, if not obvious.

But here too, I'm still puzzled by the result. Again, I'm not jugging the talent nor the quality (or quantity) of the (clever) work done by the author, Adof Navarro, but how a video background based animation production has been granted the "Best Use of iClone" price.
To be honest, most of the beauty of the shots of this entry come from the original video backgrounds. While there is certainly a great job done for the characters and the integration and compositing in Vegas to complete the shots, if you remove those video backgrounds then you are left with big holes.
Don't get me wrong, I like the result, it is a clever use of iClone, for sure, but the "Best Use" ? Again, this must be very frustrating for those who tried to do everything in iClone without resorting to video backgrounds because they couldn't create those backgrounds in iClone.

It's like if the message given to the public is:
The best use of iClone is to do most of the work outside of iClone (especially for the sets/backgrounds: use videos, or 3d rendered in an another product, whatever..) then just add your avatars and props on top of it.

This sounds like "Crazy Talk" to me ; )

Both entries surely deserve a price nonetheless, my point being the category in which they won the price and the judges criteria.

Anyway, congrats to all the winners.

Cheers,
Guy.

HUH? I dont get the beef?





thedirector1974
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There was no rule that forced the participants to use iClone. Reallusion sure want you to use iClone, but in this contest, there was no rule about the software for creating the vids.
Everyone was free to use any software, so I think there is no real problem here ...
wungun
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thedirector1974 (8/6/2015)
There was no rule that forced the participants to use iClone. Reallusion sure want you to use iClone, but in this contest, there was no rule about the software for creating the vids.
Everyone was free to use any software, so I think there is no real problem here ...

I think the problem is he didnt read the rules nor understand what the contest was all about. Reallusion is trying to show that their product is very versatile in any pipeline/ prduction . The false narrative is that you should only use the software Iclone for the contest is not true. Reallusion are telling game developers look at what you can do with our product, and how easy it is to use to export your work in and out of iclone and  into other software. 



Capemedia
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grabiller (8/6/2015)

Hi,

Not that I want to ruin the party here but imho some comments need to be made regarding the results of this contest.
While I understand the rules of the contest and the fact that Reallusion is not alone in the voting process, at least two results puzzled me:

1) First, the "Best Character Animation" won by Alvin Snerling, aka Wungun.

While I'm not questioning the obvious talent of the author and the work done for his entry, I'm a bit puzzled by the fact that the "Best Character Animation" has been won by a production using mostly Motion Builder for animation, a $xxxx figures software. Imagine an Hexagon modeling contest where most of the modeling would have been done in ZBrush then Hexagon used to make some screenshots for the entry.
This must be very frustrating for the contest participants who tried to do everything in iClone and don't have access to this kind of high priced applications.

It's like if the message given to the public is:
You have no chance to win an iClone *animation* contest by using the built-in tools only.

To be fair, it is unclear what was the Reallusion "weight" in the voting process for this entry, compared to the other sponsors.

2) For the "Best Use Of iClone" I think the Reallusion "weight" in the voting process is a bit clearer, if not obvious.

But here too, I'm still puzzled by the result. Again, I'm not jugging the talent nor the quality (or quantity) of the (clever) work done by the author, Adof Navarro, but how a video background based animation production has been granted the "Best Use of iClone" price.
To be honest, most of the beauty of the shots of this entry come from the original video backgrounds. While there is certainly a great job done for the characters and the integration and compositing in Vegas to complete the shots, if you remove those video backgrounds then you are left with big holes.
Don't get me wrong, I like the result, it is a clever use of iClone, for sure, but the "Best Use" ? Again, this must be very frustrating for those who tried to do everything in iClone without resorting to video backgrounds because they couldn't create those backgrounds in iClone.

It's like if the message given to the public is:
The best use of iClone is to do most of the work outside of iClone (especially for the sets/backgrounds: use videos, or 3d rendered in an another product, whatever..) then just add your avatars and props on top of it.

This sounds like "Crazy Talk" to me ; )

Both entries surely deserve a price nonetheless, my point being the category in which they won the price and the judges criteria.

Anyway, congrats to all the winners.

Cheers,
Guy.


Hi Guy,

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I'm impressed you felt the need to express it on here knowing that some will take it as an attack on their work, even though you have stated it is not.

In a lot of competitions I have entered or observed I too have not always agreed with the winners and I'm talking major animation competitions, but it's not my place to judge.  If that's what I want then I need to run my own competition or get on the panel.

However, the overall standard of entries for this competition has been higher then anything that has gone before.  This make me feel that iClone can finally start producing professional animations and begin to get noticed.  iClone maybe marketed as a developers or pre-viz tool but what this proved it's so much more then that.

As I've said before, I don't think there were any losers in this, just winners.

Cape Smile  

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Capemedia UK Limited's Website


grabiller
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wungun (8/6/2015)
thedirector1974 (8/6/2015)
There was no rule that forced the participants to use iClone. Reallusion sure want you to use iClone, but in this contest, there was no rule about the software for creating the vids.
Everyone was free to use any software, so I think there is no real problem here ...

I think the problem is he didnt read the rules nor understand what the contest was all about. Reallusion is trying to show that their product is very versatile in any pipeline/ prduction . The false narrative is that you should only use the software Iclone for the contest is not true.


"He" red the rules and "he" understand those and you are right, there was (almost) no rule about the software for creating the videos. Then, in the Winner page, at the very least, there should be a mention of which software has been used by the winner of the "Best Character Animation". In this case, the animations has been done with Motion Builder (when they were not mocaps), not with iClone. Just to clarify.

wungun (8/6/2015)

Reallusion are telling game developers look at what you can do with our product, and how easy it is to use to export your work in and out of iclone and  into other software. 

Hmm, tell me, what did you do in iClone for this entry that shows what one can do with Reallusion product(s) for a game development pipeline ? Nothing. Characters have been designed in Daz3D and animations (aside mocaps) done in Motion Builder. Ok, you use iClone to render your sequences, but in a game development pipeline those are "rendered" by the game engine. So here I'm not sure what your point is ?

In terms of "animation" there is no use for iClone in a game development pipeline, almost all game companies use defacto standard softwares such as Motion Builder, FaceFX, etc.. iClone has no chance to compete with those.

That said, don't take my previous message too personally, that was not a critic of your work, but more about the way those kind of contests are advertised, commented and priced.


--
guy rabiller | citizen guy | 3d technical director | youtube channel
not an animator, "idirector" perhaps - the audience will decide, icloner for sure.

grabiller
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Capemedia (8/6/2015)
../.. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I'm impressed you felt the need to express it on here knowing that some will take it as an attack on their work, even though you have stated it is not../..

Well, to be honest, I'm done trying to round the edges in my comments, as I'm probably already on some kind of blacklist here, so I don't care much about childish reactions. If some will take it as an attack on their work then it means they didn't understand my point at all and they should first work on their ego.


Capemedia (8/6/2015)
../.. However, the overall standard of entries for this competition has been higher then anything that has gone before.  This make me feel that iClone can finally start producing professional animations and begin to get noticed../..

My initial message was written to precisely warn about that kind of thinking: The best character animation video has been animated in Motion Builder, not in iClone.

This is not mentioned on the winners page, on the Reallusion site, and this is misleading (on purpose ?).

I'm just asking for a bit of honesty.


--
guy rabiller | citizen guy | 3d technical director | youtube channel
not an animator, "idirector" perhaps - the audience will decide, icloner for sure.

primaveranz
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FWIW I agree with both sides in this discussion. The winners played exactly by the rules and won fair and square, no question. 
However I believe that Grabiller doesn't have any issue with the winners (so don't attack him on that mistaken basis), and IMHO he is quite right to warn against the impression which might be formed by those of us (me included) who actually didn't read the rules so carefully (as either the winners or Grabiller), that "all you need is iClone" (more or less). So I hope this thread doesn't just descend into another twisted argument, there are far too many of them already on the forums and IMHO those of us who care about iClone and animation in general really need to stick together more.
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4 Years Ago by primaveranz
wungun
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Is he just doing this for Attention?



txon
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Congratulations to the winners, a few impressive works. In this contest it was clear that using only Iclone, anyone had chance to win it, this does not remove merit winners, are some very good work



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