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Xsens vs Perception Neuron

Posted By hcameron90 9 Years Ago
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freerange
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So I think your best option and cheapest to get professional results:
Shoot video reference with your cell phone and roto animate over the video, this is a common professional practice and gives great results and does not cost you anything. You can supplement it with the thousands upon thousands of mocap libraries that are free or paid content. Once the curve editor comes out it will be significantly easier to get really solid body animation done by hand in iClone.

If you want to start doing mocap that is directly integrated in iClone and hits your budget then you really only have one option which is the Perception Neuron. To save money you could try picking up a used suit which will help it actually fit in your budget.

The roto-mation though will teach you a lot and give you great results and save you a couple grand which you can put towards the Faceware plugin as that is harder to replicate than body mocap. 

sbaerman (9/12/2017)
Hi Free range,

thanks so much for taking the time to write back with so many great comments. Actually I am coming more from the usability side. Please allow me three thoughts.

First:
As I am a hobbyist, my budget is limited. So spending more than 2000 USD for a solution will be difficult. As I don't see a return on investment so soon.


Second :
I am looking for a solution that shall be integrated with Iclone from a process. Yes it is possible to import the movement through 3dxchange as i understand, but best would be to capture it right away in Iclone and to see on screen in realtime, how the captured movement plays out in the scene, that shall be used later. This will also save time.

Third:

Setting up cameras is relatively complex as soon as it starts to be multiple cameras. That means, that there will be a lot of cables in the room and things start to become messy, also not so easy to move from one place to the other. I have studio space available 100m2 - so that is not the problem. But If I want to take the solution to the actors, this will be hard.

I know this is an impossible ask. But let's not forget one thing. So far all the solutions out there are expensive, as the number of people buying it - is very limited. The Iclone user base is not that large too, but it is much bigger that the customer base for one of the solutions out there in the market yet. I hope in coorperation with Reallusion some vendors will offer a reasonable solution with priced in economy of scale, so that the prices drop to the amount of items sold ....

What is the perceiption of other users, what do you think?

Thanks

Steffen




Free Range
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mtakerkart
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@sbaerman

First: I use 2 Neuron kit and It give me good result regarding the price

Second: Neuron is perfectly/easy integrated in Iclone pipeline to see/record directly inside Iclone. But for my case I use Iclone only to figure
how to behave depending the character/creatures shape to prevent odd mouvement or body penetration. All recording are made inside Axis.
Then made some cleanup and after broadcast in Iclone. May the new upcomming  Curve Editor could bypass the Axis process.

Third: I use usb cable for the suits but it could be achieve with the wireless fonction but need batteries pack that I don't have . All performances with Neuron are for
regular behavior or moves 15 feet around, the stunt/fight/fly/kunfu/ragdoll/etc... are from bought motion.

Quadro: I backed Rokoko suit but no news today , they're more than one year late of the schedule.
diomkal
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Everything is done, I have found a solution. I have taken the T-pose of mixamo and that works wonderfully with the fbx of Orion
dr.zap
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diomkal (9/12/2017)

Could anyone tell me how I can get a goodT-POSE for Ikinema Orion?

I have tried a bit with a limited version to make an animation in ICLONE(3DXchange 6).

I used the FBX T-Pose from Ikinema, but the character always lies vertically on the ground, even if the animation is good.

Perhaps one of you ever tried and succeeded. A help would be helpful. 



Oh good, somebody has Orion!   But I don't understand your question.  Why can't you make your own T-pose if you have the software?
diomkal
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Could anyone tell me how I can get a goodT-POSE for Ikinema Orion?

I have tried a bit with a limited version to make an animation in ICLONE(3DXchange 6).

I used the FBX T-Pose from Ikinema, but the character always lies vertically on the ground, even if the animation is good.

Perhaps one of you ever tried and succeeded. A help would be helpful. 

sbaerman
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Hi Free range,

thanks so much for taking the time to write back with so many great comments. Actually I am coming more from the usability side. Please allow me three thoughts.

First:
As I am a hobbyist, my budget is limited. So spending more than 2000 USD for a solution will be difficult. As I don't see a return on investment so soon.


Second :
I am looking for a solution that shall be integrated with Iclone from a process. Yes it is possible to import the movement through 3dxchange as i understand, but best would be to capture it right away in Iclone and to see on screen in realtime, how the captured movement plays out in the scene, that shall be used later. This will also save time.

Third:

Setting up cameras is relatively complex as soon as it starts to be multiple cameras. That means, that there will be a lot of cables in the room and things start to become messy, also not so easy to move from one place to the other. I have studio space available 100m2 - so that is not the problem. But If I want to take the solution to the actors, this will be hard.

I know this is an impossible ask. But let's not forget one thing. So far all the solutions out there are expensive, as the number of people buying it - is very limited. The Iclone user base is not that large too, but it is much bigger that the customer base for one of the solutions out there in the market yet. I hope in coorperation with Reallusion some vendors will offer a reasonable solution with priced in economy of scale, so that the prices drop to the amount of items sold ....

What is the perceiption of other users, what do you think?

Thanks

Steffen


Machines :
MSI Gaming Laptop, I7, GTX 1080, 16GB RAM, 512GB SSD, 1 TB HD
Acer Predator Helios 300 I7 10750H, 16GB, 1TB SSD, RTX 2070



freerange
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sbaerman, what you invest in really depends on what your intended usage is. 

There are lots of options coming out this year but type of content you plan on capturing and if you plan on generating revenue from your work will go a long way in us helping you with your decision.

With Xsens the Awinda is cheaper than the Link suit and similar in design to the wearnotch. Generally all intertial capture suits work the same but what sets one apart over another is hardware quality and most importantly the software (especially the solving system). This is why the Xsens software costs significantly more than the suits. With the Indie program you get to use it for free for 1 year, but after that you will need to start paying. If they charge full price after 1 year that is another $20K for a lifetime license. They fully expect their users are generating revenue to cover the costs. If you are buying 2 suits then at a minimum you are looking at over $15K to start then the MVN Pro license a year later. This is really a system designed for studios developing a game for release or VFX studios doing pre-vis or virtual set work in which the suit pays for itself quickly.

If you are doing this for more indie work or just for fun then I would keep a close on in the cheaper intertial systems, wait till they have some volume production and lots more reviews then go for the one that seems reliable, has good support, and fits your cost needs.

If you don't need mobile remote capture or large capture space and most of your capture is people standing and moving around you might be better served with setting up a home optical capture space. On the cheap side you have IPISoft and Ikinema Orion. There are lower cost (under $10K) professional setups from OptiTrack (6-8 cameras and small capture area), I don't think Vicon has anything low cost but have not priced them in a while.

So there are systems for under $1K to hundreds of thousands of dollars depending on your needs. Let us know the type of capture you are planning, budget, and expected revenue (if any) and we can make a better recommendation before you spend your money and are maybe very disappointed. I am extremely happy with Xsens but know that it is well out of the price range for most people. Most indie users who are just capturing one person at a time I recommend intertial capture because it is such a flexible system but sometimes optical makes a lot more sense.

Free Range
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TonyDPrime
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sbaerman (9/10/2017)

3) Wearnotch


    + very affordable (16 Sensors = Full Body) below 800 USD
    + very durable (waterproof)

    - no direct link with Iclone (Interface) import through 3dxchange
    - body model needs to be improved.


Did I miss anything? I am planning to invest in Faceware and 2 Bodycapture suits.

Thanks

Steffen





Just a technical thing, it looks like it is 6 for $380 US, then 12 (2 x 6) would be $760 US.  So it appears that 12, not 16, is for their 'full body'  version.  
At $64 a neuron...err notch...that would be $1,024 US for 16.  with Perception Neuron, each neuron is sold individually at $30 USD.
But then we do see they themselves reference that a max of 16 notches can be used at once (which is 4 above the full body, it seems), with vague non-specific reference to a 40 usage (at $64 US = $2,560 US).

From the FAQ

5) How many Notch sensors can be used at once?

1-16 modules, but with some minor adjustments you can go way above that. (In our secret lab tests we actually had up to 40 notches working together!)


sbaerman
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Hi all,

with high interest I am reading all your posts here. There seem to be 3 possible solutions on the market :

1) Perceiption Neuron :

   + medium price
   + plugin to iclone
   - there seems to be a lot of negative reviews on the durability of the devices

2) Xsens

   + seems to be the best solution on the market
   + direct link to Iclone (Plugin in 7.1)
   - very pricy if the the 16.000 NYD = 11.000 USD is right
   - is not released yet 

3) Wearnotch


    + very affordable (16 Sensors = Full Body) below 800 USD
    + very durable (waterproof)

    - no direct link with Iclone (Interface) import through 3dxchange
    - body model needs to be improved.


Did I miss anything? I am planning to invest in Faceware and 2 Bodycapture suits.

Thanks

Steffen





Machines :
MSI Gaming Laptop, I7, GTX 1080, 16GB RAM, 512GB SSD, 1 TB HD
Acer Predator Helios 300 I7 10750H, 16GB, 1TB SSD, RTX 2070



TonyDPrime
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Rampa (9/9/2017)
TonyDPrime (9/9/2017)
Rampa (9/8/2017)

We all need to write Wearnotch about fixing their skeleton. Right now the hips are not a proper hierarchy, which causes 3DXchange to not accept it.


Is there a contact person, or point of contact link that would be the right channel to forward comments to?

I used the "Chat" button in the lower-right on their page.

I would recommend downloading one of their examples and trying to characterize it. It'll help you understand why it currently doesn't work. Basically, they have a left and right hip bone that are at the same level of the skeletal hierarchy as the pelvis. 3DX needs those hip bones below the pelvis in the hierarchy.

I re-parented those bones so it would work, but it breaks the existing animation, of course. Anyway, they said they would look into their rigging.


Okay.  If they get multiple users requesting a format change linked to potential purchases, they may respond. 
Will contact!

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