Thank you all for the feedback. As always this will be passed on for review and consideration. 

                                                                

Peter
Forum Administrator

www.reallusion.com

I wanted to weigh in to this conversation. I’ve been using Character Creator for almost a full year. And before I wade into criticizing Reallusion, I am probably their biggest fan. I own my own animation company, so I have an animator, a modeler, a storyboarder, etc – but before any of that I needed to visualize my characters. CC3 has been priceless as an asset in that regard. A lot of my characters are semi-realistic – which is just a fancy way of saying they don’t quite look human but nor are they cartoonish. Some of their features are exaggerated, some of them are hyper-muscular – like the comic book characters Jim Lee or Whilce Portracio or Dale Keown would draw. CC3 helped me make characters like that so people had an idea of what I was talking about. It also helps the concept artist make improvements, and then the modeler can do his thing. What’s key about this is I have NO SKILL as an artist. At all. Without CC3 it’s back to long emails and Pinterest boards. It also helps me stay inspired because I can visualize what my ideas look. I also want to praise the fantastic community. The Reallusion Forum is a great resource and MOST of my issues get solved by people on the Forum. 

Now, I don’t want to burst any bubbles here and this will probably be an unpopular take, but I’m putting it out there. Character Creator and Iclone aren’t playing on the same level as Unreal Engine, Unity, Maya or Blender. I think they’re great for hobbyists, but as my modeler explained to me in great detail – none of the models made in CC will be used in our animation – especially since we’re trying to create a big studio look. And when I connected to wider community of professionals who had experience in animation and modeling, they all use Blender, and UE and whole host of other programs that I have nowhere near the skill level to use – which is fine. That’s why I pay people to do that stuff – I simply can’t do it. I spent about $5000 on Character Creator and the plugins and all the content, learning things as I went. When I looked at Iclone, frankly, the animation looked clunky to me. And I’m not convinced their mocap stuff is seamless. On top of all that they simply can’t offer all the stuff UE has when it comes to environments with respect to variety or quality. There’s no value in me buying Iclone. What’s more, as I said on another thread, Character Creator 3 does have some clunkiness to it. The Iray plugin isn’t all it’s cracked up to be. It’s good and I like it, but it isn’t easy to use at all. Headshot wasn’t all it was billed to be either. If you go in expecting to get exactly the same face as the photo you’re using, you will be disappointed. Character Creator stuff is expensive as well. I do side with several people on the forum where I think they should reward existing customers more. The upgrade from CC3 to CC4 shouldn’t be as expensive. And I think if you’ve been around since CC first iteration maybe it should be free. Like, seriously, this community is SMALL. Some of the people in here are really dedicated and they should be rewarded. They shouldn’t have to spend X amount of dollars every year to get 40% off. 

Now, I’m still riding with Character Creator because I don’t expect them to rival UE or Blender. They’re playing in the same pool as Daz3d – and that’s cool. There’s so much I can do with Character Creator. And I know there are people on the forum who put in the time and do amazing things with Iclone, but I would contend if they put that same time in with UE (at least the people doing animation) then it would go much further. Ditto with Blender – it’s just that Blender’s learning curve is much steeper. I tried Blender and I was making a LITTLE progress, but I needed to get further faster and CC3 was the answer I needed. And it continues to be. 

Not just for hobbyists (I hate that word) but also very useful for solo director/animators. And I doubt whether Unreal or Blender on their own would get me much further.

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I won't be able to afford the upgrade unfortunately. I came on board with iClone 7 and have spent just shy of $2K in all. I'm hoping to make iClone 7 worthwhile by completing a 'film project' by around 2025/2026. I also use DaVinci Resolve/Fusion (studio) which I like because the purchase was "for life" - which is great! I've actually moved towards 'live actors' rather than avatars for better believability, though I'm using iClone for the 'droids' and I'm favoring iClone for compositing live action (camera solved) footage with IC sets. Either that or I'll use Resolve/Fusion, it depends whether I can get a smooth 24fps out of iclone when exporting. Yeah its sad I came in on IC7 - I get the impression it's just harder for a novice than IC8 will be? - Not sure. Sounds like IC8 will be like I'd imagined IC7 would be when I first purchased (ease of use wise). But then it always looks way better in the promos. Also, I'm painfully slow at picking things up I fear. Plus I'm a perfectionist to boot. Not a good combination for high efficiency throughput - lol.


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Please be patient with me ..... I don't always 'get it' the first time 'round - not even the 2nd time! :(  - yikes! ... 

● MSI GT72VR Laptop, i7 7700HQ 4-Core 3.8 GHz 16GB RAM; Nvidia 1070, 8GB Vram ● iClone-7.93 ● 3DXChange Pipeline 7.81 ● CC-3 Pipeline 3.44 ● Live Face ● HeadShot ● Brekel Pro-Body ● Popcorn FX ● iRAY ● Kinect V2 ● DaVinci Resolve17 ● Mixcraft 8.1

My .02.....

I started my adventure in animation with this software.  I don't really know others to make comparisons.  I like the ease of use for the basic stuff.  But as other have mentioned, some of the custom work that may need to be done to certain items can be a bit overwhelming to those new to all of this.  I love creating characters with CC3!!!  As for iClone, I do like that it assists with the animation.... or maybe I should say preset animations that we can modify.  It is a real time saver IMO.  I have been working with this software for a little over a year and will more than likely stay with it until the go rental like everyone else.

Is this software cheap?  It reasonable in the long run.  I spent around 5500.00 my 1st year collecting all of the software and plugins I wanted or needed along with a lot of content as I cannot create my own.  For a hobby, a little high.  For me I am looking to expand my services offered to my customers.  The learning has need slow  and slower now as covid has put me back to working for someone else atm.  I earned enough points in the year end contest to get CC4 free, and I will most likely upgrade to iClone 8, when will be determined by the new cost.  It took nearly 9 months to get 3D exchange at a price I could afford.  I think at one point it was listing for 599.00, I got one for 249.00 on sale.  Of course that could be because they were incorporating it into iClone and were trying to make more sales before gone. 

I have recently discovered and have been putting a little more effort into learning Blender lately.  Once you get past all the confusion in the menus and buttons, it's not really that hard.  I have picked up some basics, with the help of some plugins, and it has helped in my learning of the software.  So when we talk expenses... Sure, Reallusion charges for their produce, Blender is free... but I have so far, spent around 250.00 for plugins for that free program.  Everything costs if you want convenience.  To compare the software though is comparing apples to oranges.  IMO, Reallusion software is more a tool to speed up your animated projects and not really a creation software like Blender.  Sure, you can make modifications with Reallusion and maybe put some scenes together, but no where near the power to create like Blender.  On the flip side, my ignorance of Blender still scares me venturing forth to anything further than creating props/scenes.  There seems to be so much to characters with bones, eyes, mouth.... I am not there yet.  I will be happy to be able to make good items for my animations without having to depend on "what is available".  Truly custom. :D  I still have clothing and hair to learn as well as texturing LOL.

Anyway, upgrading is really based on the individual and their needs.  Personally I can stay with 7 and have it good enough for what I am doing.  But will upgrade, the promo looked good and there are some new features that may be useful for me. IDK, when it comes out I will decide. But since I will be getting CC4, iClone 8 seems necessary unless I plan on using these characters elsewhere.  I really hope they keep the price reasonable or maybe just lower for existing owners.  Hell, only things left for me to purchase here are the mocap and unreal plugins LMAO!.  (oh and crazytalk, seems CTA4 has all that function so I returned it)







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A very interesting thread.

I'm leaning on the side of those who believe that folding the functionality of 3DFX into iClone does not offer enough benefits to justify the increased costs.

Which is a damn shame because v8 looks to be pretty much what we were promised in v7, which never really lived up to the promo videos, which themselves failed to mention that facecaping a character would require some very expensive plugins.

It makes me.wonder how many features in v8 will need additional and highly expensive plugins. Add to that the eye watering upgrade cost for those of us who shelled out for pipeline last time around and it all begins to look like a Sit Back and Wait situation.

I can't afford IC8, but I am saving up for CC4. The price on CC4 will be $249 for members, which is only $50 more than CC3 Pipeline was.
At least I will get my foot in the door with CC4. I am not going to fret, CC4 is my best bet yet. I'm all set. I guess I'm getting carried away
with what I have to say.  I can't wait no more for CC4. 

Unless you will be exporting your characters to use in other animation software, you will need iClone 8.

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Unreal Engine plugins are free for individual users.
I spent a lot of money on the upgrade and it's really big money for me.
If the prices are like this when the CC5 and iC9 come out, I probably won't upgrade.
But there is an undeniable difference between CC4 and iC8 and previous versions.
So it seems important to have them.

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