Hi all.

Some statements/blurbs here really hit home. Really great 'words here'. I will give a different perspective from outside in which really lines up well with what is stated above.

In my current life I am an industrial process and systems specialist (and consultant). I make real world things like pumps function without breaking pipes in the street...as an example. In my transitional life I am taking that life experience and making a fully functional 'Total Recall' and 'The Matrix' solution. Oculus Rift already works with the thumb controls and I have the 60fps performance specs dialed in. I have my own NDA so I cannot give details but if you saw how the concept works in those movies then you have it.

The trouble I see in 3D Applications is the severe lack of QC. In the industrial sector I have multi-millions of dollars at real world control with the PLC (Programmable Logic Controller) running at sub 5ms scan times for advanced math and analog/digital control. So this is high end expensive stuff that would be the hardware of choice to control space flight. This stuff has impeccable QC and very hi resiliency. When something breaks I can have it back up very quickly....even with having to overnight something odd. With the 3D Applications I see push-patches that sometimes are awesome but usually they fix things but cause a lot of other issues....all because of lazy QC (from my view point).

Take that a step further with what is stated in above posts and what you end up with is some really good choices for 3D Software but having to deal with 75% here and 35% there. Or perhaps even more overlap of things having to be done twice because Software Developer A never really takes a solid looks at Software Developer B (who does similar things) and says....what do we need to have in our software to make certain that we can do it so our customers can keep spending money in our suite of products?

I see none of that...Reallusion seems to trying but seems to have an ego issue (DAZ also has a similar issue). Not trying to seem offensive but from the outside looking in....iClone7 is an amazing tool that has many wtf moments. DAZ Studio is another that constantly makes improvements to keep selling their 'cash cow' but some things just make you sit there and think....wtf...and...why? In these two examples more than the base functionality is already there. Simply needs people/pros to sit down and go through a very detailed QC/Testing List to polish the software. There is nothing complicated about it....polish the software with the professionals that are programming it in the first place. The code is already there...add to it or fix it....then test it. You can simply throw any 3D application developer into this and they all have issues that are long over due. The real issue is....well...we want to work on the next Shiny. Testing and polishing code is no fun. I can agree 100%...usually not fun but 150% necessary. In the real world control really bad and expensive things happen with poor QC.

So as to this topic of iClone and DAZ and some really nifty 'Super Nerds' here on these forums (and DAZ as well) finding ALL OF these workarounds to 'Get Their Sh-t Done' are astoundingly amazing. I salute all of you. Including all the Reallusion Supporting Folks who answer.

Personally I have figured out my/our own workflows for Real Time Rendering by needing both iClone 7, 3DXChange 7, and DAZ Studio 4.10. Not the easiest workflow and sometimes/often I wonder why is this so hard. At the end of the day nothing is breaking and we are really pleased with this. I wish I could do it all in Reallusion to be honest....but I already ranted on that subject. For now....i'll just keep using the Swiss Cheese of 3D Animation and Modelling tools.

Perhaps some day we can dumb it down and simply click buttons and press export.....like F-ing Magic. :D:cool::hehe:

RAG DOLL COLLISION ANIMATIONS FOR ICLONE 8 & 7
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Ghost Origins

My latest Feature length film created with Iclone.
93% of original size (was 540x16) - Click to enlarge

My Sci- Fi Graphic Novel on Amazon: https://a.co/d/9k3cwoY

My IMDB listing
Anabran Abdhul Quarnain - IMDb

Another great post. You are spot on.
I really do like iClone 7 by the way. Stated a few times. =)
Yeah...the really cool workflows are....well....really cool.

Today's adventure in Dazland...

I was trying to understand how the DAZ store works.  Somebody suggested I try installing a freebie from the DAZ store, which seemed a good idea.  The download (using Install Manager) seemed to work, the asset appeared in my DAZ.  However, other stuff that had been there, such as Gen 2 and Gen 3 characters, were now gone.  Thus I couldn't apply the asset I had just downloaded. 

I then logged in to another user account on my Mac where I do most of my DAZ work.  That install of DAZ threw up an error, and ALL DAZ content is gone, everything, including the base content which comes with every new install.

My theory for the moment is...

DAZ software is not very useful without the DAZ store.  This is reasonable given that DAZ software is free.

The DAZ store can not be relied upon.  Thus, the entire system can not be relied upon.  Thus, the huge time investment necessary to learn 3D in DAZ may not be warranted.  

Why would I buy things from the DAZ store if doing so poses the risk of killing DAZ software AND any other content I may have already purchased?

If I'm not going to use the DAZ store, why am I using DAZ software?

On the plus side, it may be a good thing I learned all this only a week in to DAZ.

RAG DOLL COLLISION ANIMATIONS FOR ICLONE 8 & 7
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ghost Origins

My latest Feature length film created with Iclone.
93% of original size (was 540x16) - Click to enlarge

My Sci- Fi Graphic Novel on Amazon: https://a.co/d/9k3cwoY

My IMDB listing
Anabran Abdhul Quarnain - IMDb

Hi Autodiact,

Thanks for your comment.  Well, I guess I'll just post anything the mods will allow on any forum I visit and you'll just have to learn to ignore any posters you find objectionable.  Have a good day sir.

You know what this means right?
It’s a sign...
Time to learn Unity and Unreal Engine!!!
They use asset/exports from both Reallusion & Daz, so, yeah, time to go shopping again!

Honestly, his biggest problem may be the Mac.  It's a fine piece of hardware... for certain things.  For other things (like 3D) it sucks eggs.  (And I'm a LONGTIME Apple guy -- I'm even such a guru on the forum they sent me a nice Christmas gift for being one of the elite support staff).

Because he is married to it, he might as well forget 3D.  Compose some music, do some video editing, play around with anything BUT 3D because, well, you need a PC.  Plain and simple.  The best apps for 3D are just PC specific, including some VERY high end ones (and even middle of the road $3K ones like Max). 

Those of us who work all the time forget this -- and I'm seeing cracks even in those folks (like my best friend here, who is shopping for PCs).  The PC has come a LONG way and it's now clearly superior for most high end applications.

---

Alienware Aurora R16, Win 11, i9-149000KF, 3.20GHz CPU, 64GB RAM, RTX 4090 (24GB), Samsung 870 Pro 8TB, Gen3 MVNe M-2 SSD, 4TBx2, 39" Alienware Widescreen Monitor
Mike "ex-genius" Kelley

Hi again Kelley,

You may have missed it above but I may be about to inherit a PC.  I'm told it's a recent model, but other than that I don't know anything about it.  I'm not married to Mac, I'm just not interested enough in 3D to buy a new computer to do it.  As you say, there are many other things one can do.

When DAZ isn't exploding :-) even after just a week I'm starting to do primitive animations with it.  To you it would probably be a big step down, but to me it's a step up because I'm starting from nothing.  When I'm not whining about DAZ exploding I am having a certain amount of fun.  

I've been animating DAZ characters in a primitive manner, screen recording the Viewport so I can export in less than a thousand hours with iRay, and then green screening out the background of the screen recording and adding video layers in Hitfilm.   It's not award winning, but 3D of a sort is happening. 

I was actually surprised that DAZ has quite a variety of ways to pose and animate.   It boils down to what one is comparing it too, and I'm comparing it to nothing, so it's working for now.

@Phil_78

With DAZ I have never had issues with store purchases (my library is enormous). Sounds like you are doing something wrong. Not a DAZ issue.

Don't use the New-ish Feature called DAZ Connect either. I use Install Manager and download it and install everything. It is always on my hard drive whether I am connected or not. I do the same for iClone and Blender and whatever....never any issues with corrupt projects and files. Use 7200rpm or SSD...not 5400rpm drives either.

Also an issue is install DAZ outside of any 'OS Security' encapsulated folders...like C:\Program Files on Windows computers since many pieces of software have troubles working with how OSs do things to protect themselves. Mostly Windows but I have heard things on Macs as well related to this.

DAZ uses an older database system and a newer one (depends on which version of DAZ) that get corrupted rather easily if you allow the OS to mess with this....like obfuscating and various malware protection and antivirus. I use D:\DAZ   have never had any CMS database glitches since.

DAZ is fun to animate in. Missing a couple key features but with Graphmate and Keymate it animates well. Not even close to what iClone 7 does but then again to animate in DAZ it is $50 instead of $800+...our team uses both actually.

As @TonyDPrime stated...learning Unity and/or UE4 is an awesome way to render real time. I need the engines for more than just that but for people looking to make movies they are simply amazing rendering engines. Movie peeps don't have to worry about game tech either....they can just make movies.