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Character Creator 3 - Work-In-Progress 1 (Pre-Order Now!)

Posted By Miranda (RL) Last Year
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Character Creator 3 - Work-In-Progress 1 (Pre-Order Now!)

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Miranda (RL)
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For those who still confuse with the editions and differences Smile
  1. There are two CC editions, CC3 Pipeline Edition and CC3 for iClone
  2. CC3 Pipeline Edition and CC3 for iClone supports all CC2 functions 
    *Please be noted that CC2 character can be exported as IC6-compatible or IC7-compatible iAvatar, while CC3 character is compatible with IC7 only
  3. CC3 Pipeline Edition allows to export FBX and OBJ file, while the export ability of CC3 for iClone depends on which edition of 3DXchange 7 you own
  4. Some functions such as Auto-skin weighting, GoZ and LOD are supported in CC3 Pipeline Edition only, which implies that CC3 for IC plus 3DXchange Pipeline is not equal to CC3 Pipeline Edition
  5. All iClone 7 users can get a free copy of CC3 for iClone, no matter you've already bought it, or are going to buy it

We will check the other questions and requests, and get back to you next week, thanks everyone!

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Rogue Anime
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WOW! Sure am glad I don't have an AMD card....Whistling   ~V~

       Val RogueAnanda
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Kelleytoons
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Val,

There is that, but also I am not at all convinced still that iRay can be used for animation (at least practically).  I think it's VERY telling that the example file Miranda shows rendered as an animation was rendered at 320x240.  That tells me that trying to render a test at anything other than a ridiculously small size would take too long even for RL to do (my gut is telling me it took several hours -- and with multiple GPUs.  Multiply that by a factor of 8 or more and you have for just one avatar standing there perhaps 8-12 hours...).

I hate to be right all the time, but iRay just doesn't seem at all practical to me.  I'm sure there will be some (many?) here who are willing to put up with insanely long render times for it, but not this camper.





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HeadClot (6/1/2018)
kmitchell.12catblackstudios (6/1/2018)
I bought the full pipeline bundle does that mean i have to pay another 200 for the Goz and other features? 


No you will not have to pay another 200 dollars. I think the first post has more info Smile


That's what I read and it still was not clear if 3 is a free upgrade from 2 if I own the game dev pipeline already. I understand that the IClone users will get the base one but as for the full pipline owners is this free as well or is there an upgrade fee. That's my concern. 
justaviking
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Miranda (RL) (6/1/2018)

AMD graphics card is not supported in this architecture. 



Animation rendering is supported by Iray PlugIn for iClone & CC3, you can see the image sequence output from the image below.

Differ from Indigo Plugin, there is no need to export huge amount of frame-by-frame scene data before rendering.



Lighting and Shadow

iClone uses a special treatment of real-time lighting and shadow by casting shadow via Shadow Caster without a light. It allows to turn off shadow for a specific light.

Iray is a raytracer system with true physically based rendering, which means that any light, emissive mesh, even IBL can cast shadow. In other words, there won’t be any shadow appears if there is no light source exists.

Example: It shows iClone can purely cast shadow using shadow caster, while Iray can't do it without a light source. It explains why you see the shadow difference in WIP 1 video.



Supported iClone Post Effects

In the the first Iray PlugIn release, we will focus on Iray’s photorealistic rendering, iClone camera and light mapping, as well as the full MDL material support. We do hope we can deal with other post effects like LUT, HDR, or NPR in the future development. 



A - Doesn't support AMD cards, but an "AMD system" should still be able to run Iray.  It will run (fully featured) on the CPU, just a lot more slowly.

B - Definitely good news.  It will very interesting to see how well that works in practice.  Cautiously optimistic (ignoring the actual rendering time itself).

C - Good explanation of what some people observed in WIP 1.  Thanks.

D - Thanks for the useful information, and proper setting of expectations.




iClone 7... Character Creator... Substance Designer/Painter... Blender... Audacity...
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Last Year by justaviking
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kmitchell.12catblackstudios (6/1/2018)
HeadClot (6/1/2018)
kmitchell.12catblackstudios (6/1/2018)
I bought the full pipeline bundle does that mean i have to pay another 200 for the Goz and other features? 


No you will not have to pay another 200 dollars. I think the first post has more info Smile


That's what I read and it still was not clear if 3 is a free upgrade from 2 if I own the game dev pipeline already. I understand that the IClone users will get the base one but as for the full pipline owners is this free as well or is there an upgrade fee. That's my concern. 


As Miranda posted here:
Some functions such as Auto-skin weighting, GoZ and LOD are supported in CC3 Pipeline Edition only, which implies that CC3 for IC plus 3DXchange Pipeline is not equal to CC3 Pipeline Edition

This means that the CC3 Pipeline version needs to be purchased to access all options. If you don't want any of the options listed above then the iClone Pipeline version with the free CC3 upgrade is all that you need.



Gerry



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TonyDPrime
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Hmm...I know we saw 320 x 240, but I'm willing to bet 1080p will be within an expected 'norm' .  Any render, for example, that I've done on Octane takes about 6-10 seconds a frame @1080p, with 6 Pascal GPU.  that includes with denoiser.  Any notion that Octane denoiser is instantaneous, @1080p, is not the case.  I use it, forums speak of it, and developers confirm it is not the case.  
So, the idea that ANY *raytrace* renderer will do 1-2 seconds @1080p is just not going to be feasible now with current GPU technology, in any case of rendering.

HOWEVER - What is definitely very encouraging is the iterations setting + Denoiser Iterations settings shown.  This is very good news, because it means, like the 3DS Max Iray plugin, you can set a small sample/iteration target setting, say 10,  and then have the denoiser kick in at 10 iterations, for an 'upon completion' denoise mode.  This is where, with multi-GPU, I have experienced a 6-10 second render time per-frame, at 1080p.
And yes, if too long, use iClone realtime PBR, UE4, Unity....it's not like Iray will 'turn off' your ability to use it.  But yes, for RayTrace, this is the reality of where the technology is, now....
The reason I say all this is that 6 seconds for a 1080p iClone Iray render would not be a fail by ANY stretch of the imagination.  It would be, quite the contrary...A HUGE win.
I mean, do I want it to be 1 second? - YES.  Do I like that UE4 renders MULTIPLE 1080p frames per-second? HELL YES!...
But not until RTX will anything bring us that.  And unfortunately, at a cost of 3-4 Volta cards in your rig.
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@Miranda(RL) - thanks for the feedback to comments in this thread.  I myself was initially disappointed by the smaller # sliders for tonemapping. 
I have since come to realize that what will actually be the biggest breakthrough is allowing us to use multiple LUTs on an Iray rendered image.  As that would negate the need for more image-shaping sliders.
Please consider LUTs as part of the initial Iray release.
Thanks!

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Tony,

Let's be generous here and take your optimistic (which I think are, particularly for only one GPU) figures -- six seconds per frame.  10 frames a minute is our top speed and we'll even say 24fps is our goal (although nowadays it's FAR more realistic to use 60fps for any digital delivery platform, or at least 30fps).

Rendering 20 seconds an hour would have been GREAT about 20 years ago.   Nowadays to wait 10 hours for a a few minutes of animation is ridiculous, not when you can get great looking stuff in a fraction of that time.  As I pointed out MUCH earlier (when this was first announced) we're not even talking about a final render (because I don't care how close you get with a preview using iClone's native one, you'll still have to render at least once or twice more to get it right). 

But here's the big problem (and one that RL doesn't even seem to want to address, the elephant in the room): without a render queue you're really screwed.  Do you really want to be at the mercy of a single render pass when you might be at work (you poor slobs :>Wink or asleep.  You will waste precious hours because the best iClone can do is that one render.  AND without the ability to use a render farm you are also tying up your machine (in many cases folks ONLY machine capable of doing this) because once you start your render you won't be able to do anything else.

Sorry -- but iRay sounds pretty crappy to me, and I knew all along the times would be this way (frankly, I think they'll even be a bit worse).  I predict now (and I'll be right again.  Sigh) that we'll see folks here put out a precious 10-20 second animation showing how wonderful it is and we'll NEVER see anyone using iRay for a full movie (one of at least three of four minutes, one that tells a complete story).  Not in my lifetime.






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Kelleytoons (6/1/2018)


But here's the big problem (and one that RL doesn't even seem to want to address, the elephant in the room): without a render queue you're really screwed.  Do you really want to be at the mercy of a single render pass when you might be at work (you poor slobs :>Wink or asleep.  You will waste precious hours because the best iClone can do is that one render.  AND without the ability to use a render farm you are also tying up your machine (in many cases folks ONLY machine capable of doing this) because once you start your render you won't be able to do anything else.



I am curious about this point, can't you just render a certain range of frames, in different batches, on your own manually, such that you can utilize the PC as you wish?  I know what you are talking about, I use my own method in Octane.
(ie you have 5,000 total, so you render 1-1000 in one pass, then later 1001-3000, then later 3001-4000, etc.)





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