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justaviking
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justaviking
Posted 6 Years Ago
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Group: Forum Members
Last Active: Last Month
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TonyDPrime (6/1/2018)
Kelleytoons (6/1/2018)
But here's the big problem (and one that RL doesn't even seem to want to address, the elephant in the room): without a render queue you're really screwed. Do you really want to be at the mercy of a single render pass when you might be at work (you poor slobs :> or asleep. You will waste precious hours because the best iClone can do is that one render. AND without the ability to use a render farm you are also tying up your machine (in many cases folks ONLY machine capable of doing this) because once you start your render you won't be able to do anything else. I am curious about this point, can't you just render a certain range of frames, in different batches, on your own manually, such that you can utilize the PC as you wish? I know what you are talking about, I use my own method in Octane. (ie you have 5,000 total, so you render 1-1000 in one pass, then later 1001-3000, then later 3001-4000, etc.) Well, sure. You could render a segment each evening. But that hardly supports a quick turn-around on the project, and really makes the "real time" marketing spin hard to believe. That is part of the reason I finally posted a request in Feedback Tracker for a "render license." (I posted about it numerous times in the forum, but now it's official.) https://www.reallusion.com/FeedBackTracker/Issue/Offer-a-low-cost-Render-only-license-for-use-on-additional-computersOf course, if you ownly own one computer, then the render-license won't be much help, but I think a lot of iClone users do have access to more than one computer.
iClone 7... Character Creator... Substance Designer/Painter... Blender... Audacity... Desktop (homebuilt) - Windows 10, Ryzen 9 3900x CPU, GTX 1080 GPU (8GB), 32GB RAM, Asus X570 Pro motherboard, 2TB SSD, terabytes of disk space, dual monitors. Laptop - Windows 10, MSI GS63VR STEALTH-252, 16GB RAM, GTX 1060 (6GB), 256GB SSD and 1TB HDD
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Kelleytoons
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Kelleytoons
Posted 6 Years Ago
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Group: Forum Members
Last Active: 2 hours ago
Posts: 9.1K,
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Folks who have never used a render queue or farm have no real understanding but let me try and explain -- if you send a job (or several) to the queue you no longer worry about it. That queue can be paused, of course, but it renders and you do whatever else you want. If you try and manage it yourself you can't possibly be as efficient -- for one thing, your computer may finish and sit there, not working, for minutes (or even hours). Or if you suddenly decide you have to do something else in iClone you'd have to stop the render, and then see how far you got and restart it again at that point (again, SO inefficient). And don't get me started on multiple computers -- while you could assign one computer to render the first 100 frames, what if it gets finished before the second one (that is doing the next 100)? What if one computer is a lot slower than the other? Do you assign 100 frames to the first and then, um, 50 to the second? But what if the second renders a part of the animation that doesn't take as long to render -- now it's waiting on the first? But the first is done and now you have to figure how soon the second will finish and you start it at 200, but then the second gets done and... it's ridiculous (and that's only two computers). But you guys all know this -- you use computers that have multiple cores. Imagine how awful it would be if you had to wait on a process until the first core was finished, or you could only assign a project to one core at a time? You don't even think about this -- you just say "render" (or process, or "do" or whatever it is you need done) and the computer manages the rest. That's the way a render queue should work -- take whatever resources you have and manage them accordingly.
Alienware Aurora R12, Win 10, i9-119000KF, 3.5GHz CPU, 128GB RAM, RTX 3090 (24GB), Samsung 960 Pro 4TB M-2 SSD, TB+ Disk space Mike "ex-genius" Kelley
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TonyDPrime
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TonyDPrime
Posted 6 Years Ago
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Group: Forum Members
Last Active: 2 days ago
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Kelleytoons (6/1/2018)
Sorry -- but iRay sounds pretty crappy to me, and I knew all along the times would be this way (frankly, I think they'll even be a bit worse). I predict now (and I'll be right again. Sigh) that we'll see folks here put out a precious 10-20 second animation showing how wonderful it is and we'll NEVER see anyone using iRay for a full movie (one of at least three of four minutes, one that tells a complete story). Not in my lifetime.
Okay, I'm going to kind of agree with this- Look at the rendering of the cubes with the shadows. Now the point was to explain why there are differences between iClone's own render and then an iRay render. But, KT, did you see how slow those cubes are rendering. I am in fact surprised by that, because the image does not look that big. Whereas, the WIP video the image of the avatar looked much faster. Something's disjointed here. I think different machines with different GPU arrangements will perform much differently, like in Octane. So I think it's easy for us to speculate in either direction, and somewhat be correct in the speculation in either case. Like, "not in my lifetime" to someone who uses Octane translates to, "not in my lifetime with mycurrent rig...." But this much we do know...she says they 'hope' that they will have LUT, HDR Bloom, and NPR (Toon Shader, I guess). No mention of PopcornFX... Almost like the assumption is not "Iray is going to be the best it can for iClone", it's more like, "Iray will indeed be better than Indigo was"
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danlcort7
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danlcort7
Posted 6 Years Ago
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Group: Forum Members
Last Active: 6 Years Ago
Posts: 26,
Visits: 201
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I Ray like Indigo , to waste many time for render 1 minutes , oh , we hope a new update to get faster a good render with another software really with all my respect who people that use Indigo or Ray ,I keep on for rendering to old school way ,.what do you think folks ?
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Ellessarr
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Ellessarr
Posted 6 Years Ago
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Group: Forum Members
Last Active: 4 Years Ago
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Miranda (RL) (6/1/2018)
For those who still confuse with the editions and differences - There are two CC editions, CC3 Pipeline Edition and CC3 for iClone
- CC3 Pipeline Edition and CC3 for iClone supports all CC2 functions
*Please be noted that CC2 character can be exported as IC6-compatible or IC7-compatible iAvatar, while CC3 character is compatible with IC7 only - CC3 Pipeline Edition allows to export FBX and OBJ file, while the export ability of CC3 for iClone depends on which edition of 3DXchange 7 you own
- Some functions such as Auto-skin weighting, GoZ and LOD are supported in CC3 Pipeline Edition only, which implies that CC3 for IC plus 3DXchange Pipeline is not equal to CC3 Pipeline Edition
- All iClone 7 users can get a free copy of CC3 for iClone, no matter you've already bought it, or are going to buy it
We will check the other questions and requests, and get back to you next week, thanks everyone!
thanks for the patient and for the answers. Now i have only one question. since the pipeline and the iclone versions are "2 different versions" the question is if i buy the pipeline version first them later decide to buy the iclone, this means which i will ending with 2 different CCs? And if i use the pipeline version and export it to iclone that "features which are exclusive for the "pipeline version" will work with the iclone like the autoskin and the lod, they will be carried to the iclone and to another program like a game engine like unreal, or that features only goes direct to others programs and ca't be carried to the iclone?? another good question could be like if i buy first the iclone and use the cc version for iclone and later i decide to buy the pipeline i can open my workers which i started in the "iclone version" in the pipeline?? they have that compatibility?? And my last question that is about a feature which i saw in the video, we gonna be able to make "animations or poses" in the pipeline cc3??? cuz in the video we can see a tab "pose/animation" it means which we gonna be able to make animations or poses direct in the cc3 without need the iclone?? or it is just to have a premade pose or be able to buy pre made ones from the market, how that tab work??. Anyway thanks for all answers.
Edited
6 Years Ago by
Ellessarr
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Kelleytoons
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Kelleytoons
Posted 6 Years Ago
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Group: Forum Members
Last Active: 2 hours ago
Posts: 9.1K,
Visits: 21.7K
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My biggest concern is this -- there's nothing wrong with having an iRay plugin, and I hope RL makes a lot of money with it. I also am fine with anyone who wants to use it for stills or for animation. That's their choice. But for the vast majority of people who use iClone, we are attracted to the REAL TIME ANIMATION aspects of it. That's really the whole selling point. And wasting VALUABLE development resources on an aspect that doesn't do the majority any good is a Very Bad Thing Indeed. You might argue that RL can make more money that way, but with our native renderer still needing so many things, improvements they could make (and could sell more iClone with) it's a shame they are even spending one hour on this. At least from my vantage point. Hopefully once the iRay plugin is released that will be the end of it, like with Indigo. It will go away and the devs can go back to improving the stuff we have native in iClone (and, hell, charging us more money for it -- I have no problem for paying for more rendering features INSIDE OF ICLONE and I doubt whether others would either). But if the company diverts even a small percentage of their limited resources to ongoing iRay development we are all screwed.
Alienware Aurora R12, Win 10, i9-119000KF, 3.5GHz CPU, 128GB RAM, RTX 3090 (24GB), Samsung 960 Pro 4TB M-2 SSD, TB+ Disk space Mike "ex-genius" Kelley
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TonyDPrime
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TonyDPrime
Posted 6 Years Ago
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Group: Forum Members
Last Active: 2 days ago
Posts: 3.4K,
Visits: 12.4K
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danlcort7 (6/1/2018) I Ray like Indigo , to waste many time for render 1 minutes , oh , we hope a new update to get faster a good render with another software really with all my respect who people that use Indigo or Ray ,I keep on for rendering to old school way ,.what do you think folks ?I think anyone who watches a video will be more impressed by Iray than iClone's PBR in a one-on-one comparison. But, if they never see your video rendered in Iray because you have rendered it in native renderer, they will just merely judge the video on its own merits. So, it's an artistic choice in the end, and you can do great things no matter what you use!
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TonyDPrime
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TonyDPrime
Posted 6 Years Ago
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Group: Forum Members
Last Active: 2 days ago
Posts: 3.4K,
Visits: 12.4K
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Kelleytoons (6/1/2018) My biggest concern is this -- there's nothing wrong with having an iRay plugin, and I hope RL makes a lot of money with it. I also am fine with anyone who wants to use it for stills or for animation. That's their choice.
But for the vast majority of people who use iClone, we are attracted to the REAL TIME ANIMATION aspects of it. That's really the whole selling point. And wasting VALUABLE development resources on an aspect that doesn't do the majority any good is a Very Bad Thing Indeed. You might argue that RL can make more money that way, but with our native renderer still needing so many things, improvements they could make (and could sell more iClone with) it's a shame they are even spending one hour on this. At least from my vantage point.
Hopefully once the iRay plugin is released that will be the end of it, like with Indigo. It will go away and the devs can go back to improving the stuff we have native in iClone (and, hell, charging us more money for it -- I have no problem for paying for more rendering features INSIDE OF ICLONE and I doubt whether others would either). But if the company diverts even a small percentage of their limited resources to ongoing iRay development we are all screwed.I agree, 100% and wholeheartedly hope the native renderer sees improvements. I just have the one caveat that iClone would not be wasting resources improving Iray as it goes forward.
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illusionLAB
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illusionLAB
Posted 6 Years Ago
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Group: Forum Members
Last Active: 2 Years Ago
Posts: 393,
Visits: 4.8K
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In the spirit of making "predictions"... I predict you won't see PopCornFX (in it's current config) being rendered at all with iRay. I also predict that once RL finally (if ever) fixes FBX export and delivers the long promised Python scripting... most of us will be using Blender's "eevee" for real time rendering - easier to get your head around than game engines, and ultimately more flexible as you can also use Cycles and a plethora of Renderers (of which Octane 4 is one... and soon to be free!).
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Kelleytoons
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Kelleytoons
Posted 6 Years Ago
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Group: Forum Members
Last Active: 2 hours ago
Posts: 9.1K,
Visits: 21.7K
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illusionLAB (6/1/2018) In the spirit of making "predictions"... I predict you won't see PopCornFX (in it's current config) being rendered at all with iRay. I also predict that once RL finally (if ever) fixes FBX export and delivers the long promised Python scripting... most of us will be using Blender's "eevee" for real time rendering - easier to get your head around than game engines, and ultimately more flexible as you can also use Cycles and a plethora of Renderers (of which Octane 4 is one... and soon to be free!).And that's really how it should be -- make iClone available to whatever renderer you want, but also have the option of using its native one, and then the devs can work on ICLONE. (And I'm not going to think that true Python scripting -- the kind that Blender delivers -- will be available in my lifetime. About the only thing I suspect we'll see is a VERY limited ability to move things around. Sigh).
Alienware Aurora R12, Win 10, i9-119000KF, 3.5GHz CPU, 128GB RAM, RTX 3090 (24GB), Samsung 960 Pro 4TB M-2 SSD, TB+ Disk space Mike "ex-genius" Kelley
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