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Path Command needs a major overhaul ASAP

Posted By rampart 10 Years Ago
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rampart
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The path tools really need work for iclone 6 release. I am not trying to rag out or rant here.
I genuinely enjoy working with the iclone. There are many things that make some joy for me.

I have found intermittent problems when I use path. I am reluctant to use it.

The procedures for creating and editing paths have their own issues as well.

Example:

I was working with 3 avatars 3 paths, when the elevator doors opened they each had their own set path. The avatars were to walk out of the elevator on their own individual path to advance into the scene and make a sweeping turn to the left and walk "in human terms" about 20 feet and stop.

Each avatar was set on the timeline to walk out of the elevator on at a time. In other words, to give each avatar time to be clear of the other avatars when walking.

Stupidly, sometimes they would walk out on the path assigned to them respectively. Other times they would take the path of one of the other avatars. I did not change the assigned paths in the timeline. This kind of action took place on reruns of the project.

I thought this must be that 3 paths were defined in close proximity to each to start. In other words I had to allow space for the path away from the elevator doors on each side and space for the paths of each avatar.

I also had just about as much space as possible for the avatars to make large sweeping turns to avoid them crossing over to another path. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't.

The end result. I worked the project with as few walking scenes as possible. This is really not in the spirit of good production. You need avatars walking, walking and talking when the need is there.

I didn't solve my problems, but I did finally do this. I right clicked avatar clicked perform/walk forward and then selected a path icon. This worked better than trying to create and path clearly defined in increments of movement along the path line.

I finally got the avatars into the scene, arriving from the elevator and leaving the scene by walking into the elevator.

Clearly, the final steps for avatars following a path are bad as well. Maybe, there is a fix for this as well I've not read. I have been cutting to above waist shots when the avatars conclude their little walk on the path. This was when I used several different avatar persona.
I just could not get them to stop directly. Some kind of stutter steps at the end.

Next, What about the edit path. What is that rotate tool? I finally gave up trying to turn those little icons with that tool. I really don't understand that yellow ring thing, and what I read in the docs didn't declare it's mysteries. What happened to the standard rotate tool we use throughout the rest of iclone?

My solution to edit the path....I deleted the troubling path and created a new path. The edit tool is just not good. This is not a well done, or competent tool as it is. It is just one more major time waster and cause for infuriation, especially after you have expended over an hour trying to get something done.

Dismiss me, as you will. I believe there are plenty of other iclone users that "enjoy" similar strange behavior and fails with path. This is a major tool for use in iclone and it should be addressed and reworked for easy competent use.




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10 Years Ago by rampart
justaviking
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I think I can help you with the "rotate" and "yellow rings" topic... if I'm understanding you correctly.

The path markers provide an "up" direction that will rotate your avatar (or prop) as it follows along the path.

WHY would you want to do that?

  • If you have a wagon rolling down a hill, you can simulate it following the terrain without involving physics.  It will pitch and roll as it goes over bumps and lumps.
  • If you are flying an airplane, it can follow the path, and will roll and pitch as it goes around curves.

The advantage is that the roll and pitch "naturally" follows the path, without you having to laboriously key frame the rotation of the prop.

(It can also make your avatar walk while leaning to the side, in case you need to alter gravity for some strange reason.)



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rampart
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Viking

I was using the path the other night and when I placed the little path icons they were refusing to stand up straight. Maybe, I did somthing, but I can't think of what I did. I tried several times and got the same results.

THen I went into edit path and tried to straighten them up. I could not get the yellow tool to straighten them up.

Seriously, that yellow circle thing is irratic. I tried and tried. I could get the icons to move around, swivel but I couldn't find a connection with that yellow tool thing and getting that done.

After about a half dozen rebuilds of the path the lcons stood up straight.

Selecting those little path icons in edit path is a pain as well. Click on the avatar, edit path, click on the icon, etc. I think sometimes you have to get the cursor in some precise position. Usually, I place the cursor on the icon the arrow or dome, still that doesn't mean the click on will take.

Like you refer...why would I want the icons to be leaning anyway.





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10 Years Ago by rampart
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I love the path tool. It's something we awaited a long time for.

BUT.....  I could really do with the means to choose whether the adjacent points to the one being elevated or moved DID or did NOT move sympathetically.

Either I've missed something, or it isn't possible.

Armstrong.

Reposting image from my own server below.





Edited
10 Years Ago by Armstrong
rampart
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IMO, from what I've experienced I can appreciate having the path tool.

Yet, let us straight talk here. It works and has problems.

Now that many issues have been aired it is time RL made improvements.

RL might have done a release to keep complaints down and basically left us to it.

Not that RL didn't intend to make it right or anything. It is just proverbial.

"Barking dogs get fed first".





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10 Years Ago by rampart
prabhatM
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justaviking (1/29/2014)

WHY would you want to do that?

  • If you have a wagon rolling down a hill, you can simulate it following the terrain without involving physics.  It will pitch and roll as it goes over bumps and lumps.
  • If you are flying an airplane, it can follow the path, and will roll and pitch as it goes around curves.

Or, simply a butterfly flying away.

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Or a vehicle in flight pitching as it turns.

https://forum.reallusion.com/uploads/images/c02c75f8-9ae1-4091-b8e9-2175.gifhttps://forum.reallusion.com/uploads/images/4c56836b-f19d-4836-8a16-6370.gif

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@ Rampart

1) Characters & Props etc, Attach to a Path. 

2) Characters can Walk Forward to a Path's 1st Control Point when Selected, via Character Right-click Walk Forward Command & will continue walking. Or you can add a Character to the 1st Control Point & then Apply a Walking Template Motion & Loop it for the duration of the Path.

3) Paths can be Transformed by Right-Clicking on the Path / Edit / Toolbar Move/Rotate Gizmos.

4) Control Points can be Deleted / Added / Transformed, by Right-Clicking on the Control Points / Edit / Toolbar Move/Rotate Gizmos.

5) Paths can be added to & Follow Terrains. 

6) In some situations, you need to place a Floor under a Path & Add it To Terrain, to prevent the Path falling to the Grid (Ground Level) & where a Terrain undulates under eg; Water. 

Paths can be tricky & need a lot of repetitive practice.

There are many situations where Character Walk Forward Command & left-Clicking a point in the Viewport where you want the Character to walk Forward to, will suffice. If you don't get it right 1st time, just selecting other points, fixes it. 

Mark has an excellent Video tutorial for a Character Following a Path & stopping at various Points, with body Animation, eg; waving etc.. 

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rampart
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Colour

I get your point.

You can educate your drawers off, but the path has problems.

You are giving RL a backdoor out of this issue.

Go back and read my opening thread. This was not stuff I dreamed up.

I kept getting tilting path icons and there was no reason for it. The were place on a floor.

The golden circle thing is totally out of place and doesn't follow the conventions of the tools we use throughout iclone for rotation. I could not determine how to use the circle to straighten up the path icons. I reworked the paths for the 3 avatars and spent around 3 hours trying to get 3 avatars out of an elevator.

My opinion on this. RL contracted for the path or used some pre-existing code. The code had a yellow circle for rotation and they just put it out to us "AS IS".

What about avatars that were definitely assigned to a separate path and they crossed over and used the paths of other avatars?

You can experiment and experience all you like. If there are conditions that must be met for proper operation of the path...then RL should be the exclaimer of that news. We should not have to experiment to compensate for anomalies and things that don't work.

You can defend RL and give me some lessons. I don't mind the lessons, because I believe you have that right as a friend and fellow icloner. The RL defense is not valid.

RL should improve the path





Edited
10 Years Ago by rampart
justaviking
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rampart (1/30/2014)

RL should improve the path

Agreed.

Your original posting did an excellent job of explaining some of the issues with paths in their current state.



iClone 7... Character Creator... Substance Designer/Painter... Blender... Audacity...
Desktop (homebuilt) - Windows 10, Ryzen 9 3900x CPU, GTX 1080 GPU (8GB), 32GB RAM, Asus X570 Pro motherboard, 2TB SSD, terabytes of disk space, dual  monitors.
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Edited
10 Years Ago by justaviking



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