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Making Faces

Posted By JasonWynngard 8 Years Ago
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JasonWynngard
JasonWynngard
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SIGH! Here I am again asking for assistance but at least I don’t repeat requests so I do learn from you guys, and manage to retain what I learn. I’ll seek to break things down in hope I don’t waste anybody’s time as I’m sure you got better things to do than trying decrypt a poorly stated request.

1. I can use Faceshop Pro v.6 to create faces, save as jpg files and apply in iClone. I use the program mainly on public domain pictures and photos of historical figures whose heads are turned slightly aside. Faceshop allows me to create a front facing image of these people when the original image isn’t too grainy or otherwise faulty.

Outcome: In iClone, I have gotten some very, and I mean very good results with some pictures. I have also gotten some utterly useless results but am not sure why. I do know the load image feature doesn’t always let me line up eyes, nose, and face precisely. This means the face I end up with doesn’t look like the original subject even marginally.

2. I discovered Faceshop creates a .fac or .obj file that Photoshop can read and display as what looks like a face texture with put the texture grids. However, I can’t apply that to iClone but believe it is possible, and only my ignorance is the obstacle. I did once save the image as jpg, opened it in iClone’s texture map for faces and it showed up. BUT the grid was off. Meaning some of the grid lines were outside the face area. Of course this probably means I need to learn to texture edit such images.

Outcome: I surrendered after exhibiting complete incompetence with texture editing the image. {will try again later on after reviewing responses here and any online tutorials}   

Note: Faceshop Pro v.6 seems to be auto compatible with Poser. I suspect the texture images are so designed and thus why I can’t get consistent results or texture edit (?) with iClone.

Question: Does anyone have experience with Faceshop Pro v.6 used in collaboration with iClone and can advise me?


Final Note: Peter or other Reallusion person, is there a specific area users can upload freebies? Perhaps for you guys to inspect first to make sure they’re legit and so forth, then make available? I ask because I’ve so often sought forum help and gotten invaluable aid. I want to be able to give something back because without that aid, I’d be stopped dead in my tracks on my projects.

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Paumanok West
Paumanok West
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JasonWynngard (4/16/2011)
I do know the load image feature doesn’t always let me line up eyes, nose, and face precisely. This means the face I end up with doesn’t look like the original subject even marginally.


At the risk of being glib, garbage in -> garbage out in Face-fitting. Smile

But you deserve a far better answer than that (I hope others will chime in). In order for iClone not to treat a perfectly reasonable face picture as "garbage," I feel it is best to predigest and optimize the image before importing it. I only have 3 tips for you.

1. Once you have obtained a front-on view of the face, choose the best half and apply a mirror transformation so that the face image is perfectly symmetrical.

2. Always skip the face-profile fitting step. If you don't know what you're doing, it will easily destroy your face. I've been making heads in iClone since V1 and I still don't know what I'm doing with the profile view.

3. Some users have reported that you can permanently improve the face shape by using the Facial Puppeteering panel to tweak features. Personally, I've never tried this, but apparently it works.

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Peter (RL)
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Hi..

Pau is correct. It really sounds like you may be spending too much time trying to get good results from a poor photo. Personally I would rather spend the time hunting down a good photo to start with rather than spend hours trying to get half decent results from the wrong photo. Sadly it is a fact that you will never get good results if you don't have a good quality image to work with.

iClone4 will give fantastic results without the need for other software just so long as the image is suitable to start with. As a test why not try searching on Google for a high resolution, well lit, front facing photo which shows good facial definition.

Use this to create your head in iClone and I'm sure you will be amazed at the realism that can be achieved if you have the right image. Using poor photos will always give poor results I'm afraid.

And on your point about posting freebies. We have a forum just for that purpose. You can find it by using the link below. Smile

https://forum.reallusion.com/Forum33-1.aspx

                                                                

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peteradam6
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As Paumanok says, the Facial Puppeteering (Animation/FacialAnimation/ModifyPanel/Facekey) can make subtle face feature adjustments, that might help a face to fit a photo better.

You can also make more dramatic changes, done via the Head modify panel (Head/Faces/ModifyPanel/FacialFeatures/Detail).

Those two built-in options should be enough for most people - but there is also Argile head mesh export/reshape/replace if you need even more control:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQgNkm9gasI

I'm thinking you might be able to import the Faceshop Pro .obj into Argile alongside the iClone face, and then use it as a guide to a resculpt of the iClone face?






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8 Years Ago by peteradam6
JasonWynngard
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Paumanok: 1. Once you have obtained a front-on view of the face, choose the best half and apply a mirror transformation so that the face image is perfectly symmetrical.

2. Always skip the face-profile fitting step. If you don't know what you're doing, it will easily destroy your face. I've been making heads in iClone since V1 and I still don't know what I'm doing with the profile view.

3. Some users have reported that you can permanently improve the face shape by using the Facial peppetering.
==============================Response=========================

#1. I do that with Faceshop but I do believe you or someone previously assured me it can be done in iClone. At the time I didn't know how but with this reminder will try thatagain.
#2. Thank you. I noticed that but thought the problem was me despite the fact when I forgot to use the profile, my samples looked better.
#3. I'll experiment with that. Thanks.


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JasonWynngard
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Peter: Pau is correct. It really sounds like you may be spending too much time trying to get good results from a poor photo. Personally I would rather spend the time hunting down a good photo to start with rather than spend hours trying to get half decent results from the wrong photo. Sadly it is a fact that you will never get good results if you don't have a good quality image to work with.

============================Response=============================
You're correct. Unfortunately for me, the historical figures I wish (need) to use are mostly B/W photos taken with old style 19th century cameras. Some are surprisingly clear but many are grainy. In at least two cases, iClone did a commendable job, enough for me to apply the faces and the avatar was recognizable by anyone who knows the historical figures. I know iClone can make excellent faces because I used a photo of myself and the outcome was very good.
============================end=============================

Peter: And on your point about posting freebies. We have a forum just for that purpose. You can find it by using the link below. [Smile]
https://forum.reallusion.com/Forum33-1.aspx
=============================Response======================

Will do. I hope to upload a few items I made exclusively with iClone either today or tomorrow.
I will appreciate the privilege of giving something back for all the help I've gotten.



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8 Years Ago by JasonWynngard
JasonWynngard
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Tutor: I'm thinking you might be able to import the Faceshop Pro .obj into Argile alongside the iClone face, and then use it as a guide to a resculpt of the iClone face?

==========================Response=====================

I'll look at Argle (Quidam 3.5?) to see if I should buy it. I'm leery of spending more money of software that may not fit my needs. My work is highly specific to media relevant to sign language and Deaf History.

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JasonWynngard
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Tutor, your advice on UV's, I've printed to practice with as I have with some past advice I've received and used. I suspect in another thread you mentioned this before. This is the first time, I think that I have seen practically a step by step method for doing this. THANKS.

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JasonWynngard (4/17/2011)
Tutor: I'm thinking you might be able to import the Faceshop Pro .obj into Argile alongside the iClone face, and then use it as a guide to a resculpt of the iClone face?

==========================Response=====================

I'll look at Argle (Quidam 3.5?) to see if I should buy it. I'm leery of spending more money of software that may not fit my needs. My work is highly specific to media relevant to sign language and Deaf History.

i was just looking in to Argle and it seems that N-sided is no more. Sad

oh well

steve

 my youtube channel

http://www.youtube.com/user/Stinkyu111?feature=mhum

JasonWynngard
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stinkyu111 (4/17/2011)
JasonWynngard (4/17/2011)
Tutor: I'm thinking you might be able to import the Faceshop Pro .obj into Argile alongside the iClone face, and then use it as a guide to a resculpt of the iClone face?

==========================Response=====================

I'll look at Argle (Quidam 3.5?) to see if I should buy it. I'm leery of spending more money of software that may not fit my needs. My work is highly specific to media relevant to sign language and Deaf History.


i was just looking in to Argle and it seems that N-sided is no more. Sad

oh well

steve



Oh, they're still around, took a little effort to locate but they're still here. http://www.n-sided.com/index.php

I probably won't be buying the software until and unless Reallusion directly endorses it. And only then if it has clearly stated compatibility with iClone. Respectfully and no offense but I've been through some events of purchasing stuff that basically wasted my money and time so am a bit jaded now. Argle (N-Sided) makes me take a big step back because:

1. Nowhere on their site do they state the price of their software. Like with gas stations that don't post their prices I learned if the price isn't stated, it's overpriced.
2. You can download demo versions of Argle and Quidam but I decline because of #1 and experience where under similar circumstances I installed stuff that didn't know how to leave when I wanted to uninstall it. OR "uninstalled" but messed up my registry or directories etc.
3. I've had experiences where downloaded software in similar circumstances require you buy something else in order to work, and something else after that for whatever you bought to work. Reallusion does this with iClone stuff. Well, yes with certain content BUT you scroll down and they tell you up front what cloth, texture or whatever you need for the item to work and what it costs. They tell you up front before you buy it instead of sneaking a Goa'uld in your wallet.

I apologize for being pessimistic about Argle but I just don't like how they're setup for selling the product. Some ugly experiences have have made me skeptical while giving me a serious appreciation for iClone.

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Edited
8 Years Ago by JasonWynngard



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