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"The iTalk file contains custom expressions..." for all Expression Loop clips, no matter the...

Posted By dan.goyette Last Year
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"The iTalk file contains custom expressions..." for all Expression...

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dan.goyette
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It's been about 6 months that I've been dealing with this, and I still see no fix/workaround/solution. 

Add any of the animations under Animation => Expression => Expression_Loop (such as "Anger_Hi"), and it will always pop up this message:

87% of original size (was 580x228) - Click to enlarge

I've tried this with every character that CC4 provides, with all of the Facial Profile options available, and every combination still results in this warning, every time I add the Expression, even if I've added that expression before.
  • How do I get this message to stop showing up?
  • What is in the iTalk files that's causing this issue, and how can the offending parts of the iTalk files be removed?
  • What do the two choices here even mean? Which am I suppose to pick?
I reported this as an issue over 6 months ago (https://www.reallusion.com/FeedBackTracker/Issue/Default-Expression-Loop-iTalk-files-produce-unavoidable-warnings-when-applied-to-any-character), with no resolution. Frustratingly, I also see that if I use one of these expression in iClone, it does the exact same thing, with no better handling.
Is there a workaround to this? Can I somehow edit the iTalk files to prevent them from generating these messages? 
dan.goyette
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This continues to be pretty annoying. Looking more into it, I have a terrible workaround, as well as some additional detail regarding what Reallusion needs to do in order to fix this.

What Reallusion should do:
First, the root of the problem is that these iTalk files contain morph sliders that aren't part of any Facial Profile set that I can find. On applying the expression, you can opt to correct the mapping for the missing morphs, which opens this window:

87% of original size (was 580x228) - Click to enlarge

However, it's not clear what to do here. I don't know why the morphs on the model are limited to only what is found under "additional_morphs". And there are so many morphs on the right that mapping them all would be extremely tedious . (Probably why Reallusion hasn't updated these Expressions yet,,,)

What Reallusion should do here is update the "Embed Motion" pack (https://marketplace.reallusion.com/motion-pack-379159) which contains all of these Expressions. Two options seem viable to me:
  • Ideal: Correct the iTalk files so that they don't contain these missing morphs. Make sure the iTalk files contain morphs using the Standard or Extended facial profiles. Basically, that whole package is obsolete now.
  • Worse: Provide a Mapping that can be loaded on the above window for properly mapping those expressions. I'm not sure this is really possible, though, without adding even more custom morphs to map to.

Terrible Workaround:
  • Create a new project in iClone, and add any character. Add one of these Expression (such as 01_Anger_Lo) to the timeline. It will prompt you for the same things as usual about missing additional morphs. Say "Traditional", then say "Cancel" when prompted to do a custom mapping.
  • With the clip in your timeline, right-click on the clip, and choose "Save Expression Clip". Save that file somewhere. 
  • Now drop that saved file into your Custom tab. You're basically making a copy of the original. But when saved this way, it won't have any of the offending morphs. 
  • Do this for all of the expressions you care about. It's kind of a lot, but I find that the Lo and Med expression don't really look very expressive, so I rarely use them anyway.
Final Thoughts:
All that said, I'm kind of coming to the conclusion that these Expression_Loops aren't actually very good in the first place, at least compared to all of the Face Key static expressions that come built-in to CC4/iC8. I think if you have access to iClone, it's probably worth your time to create your own expression loops with Face Key. They'll be much more expressive, and you'll know they use the right morphs.
animagic
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I can confirm this problem. I had not used the expression loops before, so I had not noticed this. The warning message is pretty useless.

No response from RL. Peter?



ayreonautic2
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Hey, just wondering if you found any more info on this. I have been frustrated by this as well. Thanks for posting your workaround!
Peter (RL)
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Apologies for the delay in getting any updates in the FT about this issue. I'll have a check on the current status of the issue and update again when I know more.

                                                                

Peter
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Peter (RL)
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 UPDATE:

I have discussed with the dev team who explained the reason you get the error message is because the the Expression Loops are a carry over from iClone 7.9 which used the  ARKits facial profile and not the CC4 Extended Profile. You can find out more about this below.

https://manual.reallusion.com/Character_Creator_3/ENU/3/Content/Character_Creator_3/3.4/08_Animation/Creating-Character-with-ARKit-Profile.htm

Sadly at present no decision has been made as to whether the Expression Loops will be updated to the CC4 Extended Profile but hopefully I will know more soon. Once a decision has been made I will update again to let you know.



                                                                

Peter
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Mushkateer
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Dear Moderator who you read as a genuine person who cares,

I just spend nearly 2000 Euros for a package of software and now I find out that the q&a is JUST AS BAD as with Daz Studio.

Wow. Just wow.

What the hell is going on here?

Word of mouth is...if you want money, (and it's not nothing), Reallusion has to deliver.  Is Daz going to get it's **** together? Maybe.
In terms of Body animation, a Daz/Cascadeur pipeline(which exists) blows iClone out of the water. But in terms of facial animation and useability there....this is the last straw. Really.

and let me guess, we won't see a correct base model for the cc4 charactertype....ever?
AutoDidact
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In terms of Body animation, a Daz/Cascadeur pipeline(which exists) blows iClone out of the water.
Ummm..Not really
Cascadure has an excellent IK system the keep it Character feet properly contacting the floor
and now even supports IK hand interaction with props
Daz studio however has no functional IK solver so any Casacadure animation you import as FBX must be as baked FK which works until you (inevitably) need to edit the animation in daz studio and the feet are no longer contacting the floor with IK solving.


Also Daz genesis figures and their clothing 
( and particularly the  hairs) are way too bloated for animation and the Slow brute force Iray  
path tracer is way too slow for animation rendering which is why Reallusion Dumped it for an exporter to the realtime NIVIDIA omniverse which Daz studio does NOT support as it does not support modern day RTX GPU’s 



RAG DOLL COLLISION ANIMATIONS FOR ICLONE 8 & 7
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ghost Origins
My latest Feature length film created with Iclone.
87% of original size (was 580x228) - Click to enlargehttps://forum.reallusion.com/uploads/images/adf9b210-df59-4cb6-aa1b-9de5.jpg
My Sci- Fi Graphic Novel on Amazon: https://a.co/d/9k3cwoY


animagic
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I don't understand what stmcorres is asking? :unsure: 



AutoDidact
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animagic (8/4/2024)
I don't understand what stmcorres is asking? :unsure: 



Perhaps he is having the same Italk error as the thread OP which I understand would be frustrating.
However Even Daz has no native lipsync option in the  latest 64 bit version of Daz studio requiring you to install the older 32 bit version and use the bundled third party audio based “mimic” function because Daz does not have the license to recompile it as 64 bit.
Every other 64 bit Facial/lipsync option for Daz studio, is a third party purchase costing over $100 Dollars and requires an Iphone and only supports a specific generation of the genesis figures thus will get broken as soon as the next version of genesis is visited upon the Daz user base.





RAG DOLL COLLISION ANIMATIONS FOR ICLONE 8 & 7
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ghost Origins
My latest Feature length film created with Iclone.
87% of original size (was 580x228) - Click to enlargehttps://forum.reallusion.com/uploads/images/adf9b210-df59-4cb6-aa1b-9de5.jpg
My Sci- Fi Graphic Novel on Amazon: https://a.co/d/9k3cwoY



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