I was not talking of iClone in terms of retro-compatibility; but of other applications. In fact I worked on a 3d application for a big company, and we had the exact same issue when the application was updated... The files could be opened on older version up to a point, and customers were happy; we didn't change the file format every release and break compatibility. Although I understand that RL does not have thousands of employees, so some things are simply omitted to get to release.

Also I can show you many applications that open files made with newer version; although they do not explicitly support it and say "it could break at any time". So saying that all other applications do break retro-compatibility is incorrect and should be carefully used .

As far as refund; I bought this last year because I was so stupid to buy CC4 before it was even released, when the upgrade offer was going on. This has been a learning moment for me to never buy anything before it is released and I try it out in my workflow. The joke is that iClone update is just $100 off the original price, which does not even give you the drive to say "heck, let's update even if I got iClone 7 last winter".
Not blaming you Peter; but your company really has some inconsistencies and convoluted ways to do business, that does not really match with me, as such I will just go my merry way, exploiting as much as I can what I bought, since I can't do otherwise.

Everyone is happy, so it won't be a problem if I am not happy about RL; life goes on, and I will look at other products for my needs. Thank God I didn't buy the whole face rig setup... I could be under a thousand dollars or more, instead of just 500.

                                                                

Peter
Forum Administrator

www.reallusion.com

Yep, since there is no clear logic in the file format that is able to understand when something has N morphs and something else has N+X morphs... Because the dev team didn't bother to create a case for it. After all, export as FBX, import with 3DXchange and problem solved... Except that it is a bother and take away precious time you could spend on your actual production, instead of fighting between formats

Nobody is asking the moon here; as far as expectations, my first day at work was when windows 98 was the main OS; and I remember that all industries that relied on specific file formats interoperability didn't have to buy a new software every few years.

Case in point there are rendering companies that still use 2009 Mac Pro as main machines, and are able to operate on old software using files coming from new software; simply because the file format is compatible to a certain extent. One thing is to have to fiddle with a file to make it work, another is to discard the previous version of the file every time a new version is released. It is not a matter of you adapting to the software, but you expecting a software to be a standard in terms of file format for years to come.

CC4 has more facial expression blend shapes than CC3. So that is one reason CC4 avatars are not compatible with IC7. 
I don't have IC8 or CC3 Pipeline either. I did get CC4 Camilla working in IC7, but I have to use 3DXChange on the expressions.
You can take CC4 hair and glasses and convert to an Accessory or prop, and export as an OBJ. Then you can bring the CC hair into IC7, if 
you have 3DXChange 7 pro or pipeline, You can also bring it into CC3 as a create an accessory, and export to IC7 that way.

I think it also comes down to your industry expectations. I know as a video editor I have absolutely no chance of being able to open a newer version project in an older version of the same NLE without a whole lot of work and headaches to get it there. It wouldn't even occur to me to expect that sort of compatibility with iClone or CC4. 

Jeff Kirkland | Director • Cinematographer • Storyteller
Hobart • Tasmania • www.one18films.com
SYSTEM: AMD Ryzen 5 5500 | 32gb RAM | RTX 3060 12gb | 1tb SSD System | 44tb HDD Storage

If they would clearly state that the files were incompatible, this would not be an issue. I have been converting formats between apps for years, so I am prepared to do some legwork; but isn't the whole point of iClone and CC to be interop? with each other seamlessly? If you get 3DSmax from few years ago you can still open newer files (they may need some work, sure); because the FBX standard is a standard that allow for extensions, so it is forward and retro compatible to an extent.The old iClone Xchange would do most of the work as you know; and it still can do that, but it is all time I have to spend to do that; and since I work mainly with 3d engines, the whole iClone suite of tools is even redundant to me; I just needed the rigging and syncing up of characters while I iterate them and reduce their poly count.

Back to Blender I guess, cleaning up CC3 output and then into Unity/Unreal

The problem is that everything is basically tied to each other, and we are talking of hundreds of dollars. It is basically twisting a hand because if you want to continue to use your existing projects you are stuck and need to update, or have to use the old apps.
This is not how things should be done; I can accept this kind of money grabbing focusing on a Chinese company that is mainly focused on profit and monetization, but RL should not need this for sure; since they make solid products.
At this point I can't go back... I spent a ton of money for assets and CC3 and CC4 and iClone7, it is not like I can turn back or get my money back  (In fact I picked iClone 7 to get the CC4 upgrade during the promo period last winter... If I knew that this is what would happen I would not really hop on the ecosystem and just continue to use CC3 to export to Unity and be done with it.).

This is my last RL product I buy; I have no intention to waste money and time into this circus at this point, and I am just hoping that I can sell my cc4 license to somoene else to get out of this mess, because as things are now I am just 500 dollars lighter, because I bought something I can't use with iClone7 and with a big problem to deal with. Way to go. I will salvage what I can and move out of CC4 as fast as I can; which is all time I have to spend that was not planned at all.

I am sorry it ended up this way; but I don't have time to waste with shenanigans. Thanks for your reply.

@lollosone: come to think of it you do have a point because 3DXchange did allow exporting to different iClone versions and the pair of IC8/CC4 was supposed to encompass all of 3DXchange functionality.

RL has also been remiss in their upgrade campaign (the one where you bought content), which included offering CC4, but didn't mention that if you were not going to use external applications that CC4 on it's own was of little use.

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RAG DOLL COLLISION ANIMATIONS FOR ICLONE 8 & 7
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Ghost Origins

My latest Feature length film created with Iclone.

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