CC4 cannot export to iClone7? What sort of madness is this?

CC4 cannot export to iClone7? What sort of madness is this?

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https://forum.reallusion.com/Topic522657.aspx

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By lollosone - 3 Years Ago

I bought only CC4 since I didn't need the extra features of Iclone 8, and I am totally content with iClone 7.
Although today I realized that I cannot push my CC4 content over to iClone.
The "send to iClone" option is disabled; so I saved my character as iAvatar; but when I load it in iClone7, I get an error and it does not load.
I tried with different content, including an actorcore character and the result is the same. Basically am I forced to export to FBX and re-import in iClone, like if I was using 2 totally disjointed apps? Are you implying that I need to buy both applications to retain the interoperability between the 2? Who came up with this and thought it was a good idea?

There are workarounds, sure, but the whole point for buying those 2 together is to have them interop with each other, without having to deal with conversion or other things like this. In my book I would expect content from either app to load even if the versions are different. I can still open files in Blender from 2019, that I made with blender from 2022, so what gives? Is this a bug?

By Sophus - 3 Years Ago

The file format changed and cannot be read by IC7.

By AutoDidact - 3 Years Ago

I would expect content from either app to load even if the versions are different. I can still open files in Blender from 2019, that I made with blender from 2022, so what gives?

FYI: Opening new blender files in older blender version will break the weighting on any character rigs that were saved with new version.

I learned this the hard way when I blindly upgraded to 3.0 and had stability problems rendering animations.

I returned to 2.93 and found all of my Character ,rigs saved with 3.0 ,were destroyed.:w00t:

Thankfully Blender 3.1 ,and beyond, fixed the crashing issues but it was bitter lesson none the less.

By animagic - 3 Years Ago

Files from newer versions of iClone/CC have NEVER been downwards compatible, so nothing new here.

By lollosone - 3 Years Ago

What a nightmare.... And yes, other applications do not guarantee retro-compatibility for newer file formats, but they allow you to work around that with specific conversion tools or partial import.
Been working 25+ years in software and the fact that every new version of an application break file compatibility is just mindblowing to me. We are not talking about 2-3 versions apart...

I guess I just made a huge mistake in spending money for CC4, lesson learned about Reallusion and their practice that force you to basically ALWAYS need to buy their new apps in pair. I thought I was going away from wasting time porting to FBX everything back and forth, and instead here I am, YAY.

By AutoDidact - 3 Years Ago

lollosone (8/27/2022)

I can understand your frustration.

The wise choice would have been to buy Iclone 8 and at least salvage ALL of your existing previous version content

especially if you have the pipeline version of CC3 & 3DXchange.

I even still have Old “dead eyed” Chuck&Gwen from iclone 5.5.

I can understand your frustration.

As it stands now the only thing you can really do ,with CC4 alone, is create characters for export to one of the major 3DCC’s or game engines.

And it this point Daz /Genesis is a far cheaper alternative, to CC4, for creating characters for those other platforms and the free accurig tool makes it even cheaper rig your own meshes for exporting to the 3DCC’s or game engines.

Although you may be able to “back door” them from CC4 into Iclone 7 as non standard FBX characters via ,3DX pipeline ,if you have the version.

IMHO I think the Reallusion should consider combining CC& IClone into one single application at some future point.

By animagic - 3 Years Ago

@lollosone: come to think of it you do have a point because 3DXchange did allow exporting to different iClone versions and the pair of IC8/CC4 was supposed to encompass all of 3DXchange functionality.

RL has also been remiss in their upgrade campaign (the one where you bought content), which included offering CC4, but didn't mention that if you were not going to use external applications that CC4 on it's own was of little use.

By lollosone - 3 Years Ago

AutoDidact (8/27/2022)

I can understand your frustration.

The wise choice would have been to buy Iclone 8 and at least salvage ALL of your existing previous version content

especially if you have the pipeline version of CC3 & 3DXchange.

I even still have Old “dead eyed” Chuck&Gwen from iclone 5.5.

I can understand your frustration.

As it stands now the only thing you can really do ,with CC4 alone, is create characters for export to one of the major 3DCC’s or game engines.

Although you may be able to “back door” them from CC4 into Iclone 7 as non standard FBX characters via ,3DX pipeline ,if you have the version.

IMHO I think the Reallusion should consider combining CC& IClone into one single application at some future point.

The problem is that everything is basically tied to each other, and we are talking of hundreds of dollars. It is basically twisting a hand because if you want to continue to use your existing projects you are stuck and need to update, or have to use the old apps.
This is not how things should be done; I can accept this kind of money grabbing focusing on a Chinese company that is mainly focused on profit and monetization, but RL should not need this for sure; since they make solid products.
At this point I can't go back... I spent a ton of money for assets and CC3 and CC4 and iClone7, it is not like I can turn back or get my money back (In fact I picked iClone 7 to get the CC4 upgrade during the promo period last winter... If I knew that this is what would happen I would not really hop on the ecosystem and just continue to use CC3 to export to Unity and be done with it.).

This is my last RL product I buy; I have no intention to waste money and time into this circus at this point, and I am just hoping that I can sell my cc4 license to somoene else to get out of this mess, because as things are now I am just 500 dollars lighter, because I bought something I can't use with iClone7 and with a big problem to deal with. Way to go. I will salvage what I can and move out of CC4 as fast as I can; which is all time I have to spend that was not planned at all.

I am sorry it ended up this way; but I don't have time to waste with shenanigans. Thanks for your reply.

By lollosone - 3 Years Ago

animagic (8/27/2022)

If they would clearly state that the files were incompatible, this would not be an issue. I have been converting formats between apps for years, so I am prepared to do some legwork; but isn't the whole point of iClone and CC to be interop? with each other seamlessly? If you get 3DSmax from few years ago you can still open newer files (they may need some work, sure); because the FBX standard is a standard that allow for extensions, so it is forward and retro compatible to an extent.The old iClone Xchange would do most of the work as you know; and it still can do that, but it is all time I have to spend to do that; and since I work mainly with 3d engines, the whole iClone suite of tools is even redundant to me; I just needed the rigging and syncing up of characters while I iterate them and reduce their poly count.

Back to Blender I guess, cleaning up CC3 output and then into Unity/Unreal

By jeffkirkland - 3 Years Ago

I think it also comes down to your industry expectations. I know as a video editor I have absolutely no chance of being able to open a newer version project in an older version of the same NLE without a whole lot of work and headaches to get it there. It wouldn't even occur to me to expect that sort of compatibility with iClone or CC4.

By michaelrbarton - 3 Years Ago

CC4 has more facial expression blend shapes than CC3. So that is one reason CC4 avatars are not compatible with IC7.
I don't have IC8 or CC3 Pipeline either. I did get CC4 Camilla working in IC7, but I have to use 3DXChange on the expressions.
You can take CC4 hair and glasses and convert to an Accessory or prop, and export as an OBJ. Then you can bring the CC hair into IC7, if
you have 3DXChange 7 pro or pipeline, You can also bring it into CC3 as a create an accessory, and export to IC7 that way.

By lollosone - 3 Years Ago

jeffkirkland (8/27/2022)

Nobody is asking the moon here; as far as expectations, my first day at work was when windows 98 was the main OS; and I remember that all industries that relied on specific file formats interoperability didn't have to buy a new software every few years.

Case in point there are rendering companies that still use 2009 Mac Pro as main machines, and are able to operate on old software using files coming from new software; simply because the file format is compatible to a certain extent. One thing is to have to fiddle with a file to make it work, another is to discard the previous version of the file every time a new version is released. It is not a matter of you adapting to the software, but you expecting a software to be a standard in terms of file format for years to come.

By lollosone - 3 Years Ago

michaelrbarton (8/28/2022)

Yep, since there is no clear logic in the file format that is able to understand when something has N morphs and something else has N+X morphs... Because the dev team didn't bother to create a case for it. After all, export as FBX, import with 3DXchange and problem solved... Except that it is a bother and take away precious time you could spend on your actual production, instead of fighting between formats

By Peter (RL) - 3 Years Ago

lollosone (8/27/2022)

Hi...

Files saved in newer versions have never been able to be opened in older versions. It has been that way since iClone 2 over 15 years ago. The same applies to all our 3D and 2D software.

This information has also been clearly stated since release in our FAQ below.

https://kb.reallusion.com/Product/53039/Can-iClone-8-be-used-together-with-CC3-OR-can-iClone-7-be-used-together-with-CC4-

However, if you have no plans to upgrade to iClone 8, and it is still within 14 days since your purchase, then you can request a refund for CC4. Please contact Customer Support if you wish to do so.

By lollosone - 3 Years Ago

Peter (RL) (8/29/2022)

lollosone (8/27/2022)

Hi...

Files saved in newer versions have never been able to be opened in older versions. It has been that way since iClone 2 over 15 years ago. The same applies to all our 3D and 2D software.

This information has also been clearly stated since release in our FAQ below.

I was not talking of iClone in terms of retro-compatibility; but of other applications. In fact I worked on a 3d application for a big company, and we had the exact same issue when the application was updated... The files could be opened on older version up to a point, and customers were happy; we didn't change the file format every release and break compatibility. Although I understand that RL does not have thousands of employees, so some things are simply omitted to get to release.

Also I can show you many applications that open files made with newer version; although they do not explicitly support it and say "it could break at any time". So saying that all other applications do break retro-compatibility is incorrect and should be carefully used .

As far as refund; I bought this last year because I was so stupid to buy CC4 before it was even released, when the upgrade offer was going on. This has been a learning moment for me to never buy anything before it is released and I try it out in my workflow. The joke is that iClone update is just $100 off the original price, which does not even give you the drive to say "heck, let's update even if I got iClone 7 last winter".
Not blaming you Peter; but your company really has some inconsistencies and convoluted ways to do business, that does not really match with me, as such I will just go my merry way, exploiting as much as I can what I bought, since I can't do otherwise.

Everyone is happy, so it won't be a problem if I am not happy about RL; life goes on, and I will look at other products for my needs. Thank God I didn't buy the whole face rig setup... I could be under a thousand dollars or more, instead of just 500.