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How do you create expressive, talking *Cyborg Avatars*?

Posted By sonic7 3 Years Ago
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sonic7
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Mike's comment: .... "No, as I said, you will need to align the avatar but it's not horrible.""
Well if I *have* to go this way I will, but I'm trying to *exhaust* other approaches first. And the approach of combining two meshes I'm thinking would be an even further last resort - I very much like the existing *look* and (the much considered) flexibility of the GYN-01 (for a Main character).

My current issue is trying to make sense of the way Dave Abbott has constructed this model .......
What I'm *seeing* in DAZ ends up looking different in CC3.

There's many 'combinations' of looks with Dave's avatar.
So first I loaded just the 'Actor' file into DAZ (it's labelled "GYN-01 Full Body Morph + 3 Shells + Face Mask") - here:

https://forum.reallusion.com/uploads/images/fb1464d5-d9be-4c4c-8c9b-a227.png

Then I attempted to export it out as fbx (using these 'export' settings):

https://forum.reallusion.com/uploads/images/a815f7cf-c603-4c4a-845b-124a.jpg

Then, when attempting to bring in the fbx via the CC3+ Transformer, I got the following error:

https://forum.reallusion.com/uploads/images/4c0dd728-bdb1-4689-8ff4-a5d0.jpg

So then I went back to DAZ, and *deleted* the 'extra files' from the node list, so now there's only the Gen 8 female remaining - as seen here:

https://forum.reallusion.com/uploads/images/9332b061-e1a1-49f5-b817-4397.png

Again I exported with the same settings as before. This time, the CC3+ Transformer showed no error and I was able to progress to the *Asset Import Status Report* panel. After ticking the 'Bake Body Texture' box, I then clicked on 'Generate Profile'. I appended the resulting INI document (right-click, & choose 'edit'), using the following changes:

For each of the Arms, Legs and Torso entries, I simply added a 'Diffuse' map and a 'Normal' (bump) map. These were .jpg images found in the model's DAZ texture folder. The folder had no fewer than19 maps of varying colors for *each body part* - I went with the blue (version #16). I also made a complete *copy* of the texture folder labelling it 'My Version' so as to leave the default files unaffected in case I want to mess with the map's boundaries or colors. So it's this newly 'copied' folder that was used as the entry for 'Texture Folder' location as seen here:

https://forum.reallusion.com/uploads/images/69c3fcfd-94ec-4c6b-a928-e159.png

After running it through, the textures were baked and the following Avatar loaded in:

https://forum.reallusion.com/uploads/images/7783888e-45f6-4f32-8752-b174.jpg

I then 'exported' it directly into iClone and increased the 'metallic' map's 'brightness' and reduced the 'Roughness' map's brightness.
The result is this (very preliminary) Iray render:

https://forum.reallusion.com/uploads/images/62552437-432f-4048-9eb4-df1a.jpg

I must say that I'm extremely surprised and happy how this turned out - I'd had a few hours of apprehension thinking it wasn't going to work at all. Even more surprising was that the 'etching relief' looks mostly there. - I didn't expect that at all - since I was exporting just the 'base Gen 8' from DAZ. ie: I thought the extra 'shells' (those I'd deleted), were what contained the etching. I'm so happy this worked out! This success is also attributed to Mike Kelley for his help (suggesting Dave Abbott to me), as well as Mike's video tutorial on Geoshells that outlines the procedure. And thanks to *mtakerkart* for your earlier post - I hadn't forgotten you!

There's probably many ways to achieve a similar end result - maybe even *better* results. But I'm just so happy to find *a* way, - I honestly struggle with this stuff - I find it a real battle (the iClone universe in general) but I hope this helps someone!.



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Please be patient with me ..... I don't always 'get it' the first time 'round - not even the 2nd time! Sad  - yikes! ... 
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Edited
3 Years Ago by sonic7
Kelleytoons
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Essentially you used the Geo-shell maps on the avatar -  nothing wrong with this at all and was the method I was first advocating in my tutorials until folks started pointing out that Geo-shells themselves (the actual morphs involved like, say, a waist of only a few inches) were not transferred.  In the avatar you are using there is a tiny bit of the morph process that helps "sell" the idea but, honestly, to me it looks less like an android and more like someone wearing a very thin bodysuit.

As to aligning the Geo-shells -- in this case I wouldn't bother, as their morphs aren't extreme and the morphs on the character sell it just as much.  The problem with (most) Geo-shells is they come in as Poser rigged avatars and thus won't map as clothing (like Maker suggests with robots and such).  So you have to convert them post and the alignment does become kind of important (not impossible, just difficult).

In the end it's all up to the look you want - all of us have specific ideas on what we are trying to achieve and if the look you have is good for you then you've made it.  This approach might work well for you with a male - in that case I'd first isolate the morph of the female (use a base gen 8 female, and create a morph from that to the morph you have here) and that way the breasts and other body parts won't change, just the lines and indentations.  Then use the texture approach as you did with this female with a gen 8 male, and once inside of CC3 apply that morph and you should be *really* close to what you want without any female characteristics at all.



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Mike "ex-genius" Kelley
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Mike >>> ... "to me it looks less like an android and more like someone wearing a very thin bodysuit" ... 
Well I guess you're right - I think perhaps I got so caught up in the immediate challenge of this that I lost my perpective on things.
Yeah - thanks for that reality check - it's not up to par at all. I don't know the best way to proceed from here to be honest ....

Thing is, this 'race' of people need to be human enough to 'relate' to, to empathise with. At the same time there needs to be a definite 'machine' aspect to them. They have to be believably/plausibly 'created' ...

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Please be patient with me ..... I don't always 'get it' the first time 'round - not even the 2nd time! Sad  - yikes! ... 
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Edited
3 Years Ago by sonic7
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I suspect the thing to do is for you to find an image that DOES represent what you want.  Maybe Mr. M and I can help you with combining things to look like that.



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sonic7
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Yeah the closest I've seen is probably these - *if* they could *fullly express* and *talk*
They have a very identifiable human form, are 'obviously' created, but would need to have the potential to fully engage on an emotional level.

https://forum.reallusion.com/uploads/images/961a5e99-9e2e-42ca-9df1-5521.jpg

So is it best to make something mechanical - more human like? OR
something obviously organic/humanlike - more machine-like?
One way or the other ..... and it's getting the 'balance' right.

My earlier attempt, as you pointed out, was too far on the 'organic' side.
Plus it wouldn't want to be a 'a face of flesh' stuck on to 'a body of hydrolics' - there would need to be a consistant 'harmonising'.
If something like the above were to have 'porcelain' looking faces yet have a full range of expressions (and speech) - it could work.

I'm wondering how difficult it would be to fabricalte such 'armoured pieces'. Let's *suppose* I could achieve that.
Question: As long as the proportions are reasonably 'close' to human - with correct elbows/knees etc. - it shouldn't be hard to 'rig' - right?
I mean 3DXChange would do it - right?

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Please be patient with me ..... I don't always 'get it' the first time 'round - not even the 2nd time! Sad  - yikes! ... 
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Edited
3 Years Ago by sonic7
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In thinking about this, I think it's the "face" that's your issue (both Mr. M and I have shown you the mechanical body is easy).

So I suspect all you need do is just use the same approach we've shown AND then put a white (or other mechanical looking) texture on the face.  That ought to do it.

I'm off to tennis (and it's a LONG tennis day - if I don't get rained out I'll play twice and then check into the ER) so today is pretty much shot but if you don't get some answers from others I'll try to give it to you first thing in the morning.



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If you want the model with the lines (impressions), you can use Reallusion's Importing Daz HD Charcters. 

Character Creator 3 Online Manual - Importing DAZ HD Characters (reallusion.com)

You will still have to manipulate the geo shells per Mike's instructions or use the technique in his upcoming tutorial, which I am definitely looking forward to seeing.




Edited
3 Years Ago by lightbearer
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What is technique you used to make this happen?
sonic7
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Thanks Mike - enjoy your tennis!
@Lightbearer - thanks - I'll take a good look at that link .....

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Please be patient with me ..... I don't always 'get it' the first time 'round - not even the 2nd time! Sad  - yikes! ... 
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Edited
3 Years Ago by sonic7
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@lightbearer  "What is technique you used to make this happen?"
Do you mean technique for modelling a shell?

@lightbearer - that link looks very interesting - I'll have to fully 'digest' it. - I don't have a modelling program like MAYA.
Would Blender work? - I guess it would if its used just for removing eyes etc... 

I just checked the DAZ store - there doesn't seem to be many 'HD' scifi related models available ....
But yes - there's the exact same one I purchased 'GYN-01' - LOL - it's HD - ha .... 

Well that *could* make a difference to the *quality* -lol. But the same problem remains - it's still looks like a human in a very thin body suit.

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Please be patient with me ..... I don't always 'get it' the first time 'round - not even the 2nd time! Sad  - yikes! ... 
MSI GT72VR Laptop, i7 7700HQ 4-Core 3.8 GHz 16GB RAM; Nvidia 1070, 8GB Vram iClone-7.93  3DXChange Pipeline 7.81  CC-3 Pipeline 3.44  Live Face  HeadShot  Brekel Pro-Body  Popcorn FX  iRAY  Kinect V2  DaVinci Resolve17  Mixcraft 8.1

Edited
3 Years Ago by sonic7



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