Ellessarr, no one is insulting or attacking anyone else, that's just crazy.  And no one ever said you were lying, you don't need to think anyone is saying that.
You know, I was addressing the original post by Makumba666 about the pros/cons of Daz and CC3 to Unreal Engine, as he said he would appreciate advice.
But then when you engaged me in a dialogue further about the technicals of the software, this is great as I enjoy discussing these things with everyone.  Also it seems you agreed with some of my points, so I think really we are on the same page, especially since a main part of this is that a bunch of us want to see a higher poly version of the CC3 base for export, one that wouldn't rely on subdivision in an outside software like Unreal.
So no worries, good discussion!

1 - i told which it does look better than CC and that was my point and it's true.
2 - now is my point to ask you "how do you know there?? any source please???, so far is just you asking me things without never showing yourself any "source' how is your time why it can't be done please??? show your source please and we can happy agree.

as i told in the same way the only way you can do mocap with a character from CC is using iclone in the same way you can only do mocap animation to daz is outside but you can import it to daz if you can import body motion why you can't import faces??, but the point is which you can make mocap face animation from daz character to unreal because a "developer team did that".

that is my last point and i'm really tired to talk with you because all it's looks like you want to do is "attacking and insulte me " like trying to say which i'm lying and bla bla bla then i'm really tired of it, if your only argument is "keep circling around asking diferent things each time i'm showing something then really let's stop here, i'm really, really tired of it.

Okay, see you actually agree with me.
1-the hair does not look good in UE4 overall, and
2-there is no way to do facial motion capture in a Daz paradigm where you export from Daz. This was the point I had made when I said there may be animation benefits in CC3 that are not present in Daz, because CC3 can export out facial mocap done in iClone, as part of a stack.

1 - here when it's not awesome as i told at last for me it looks better than CC hair, still too far way from perfect but it somehow does look better

ofcourse it's still not too much good due to lack of maps again due to poor exporting from daz but that was a basic hair.

2 - ninja theory and hellblaze game the character was made using daz genesis 3 character and used mocap on it them you can do, you just never bothered or tried to do it, all you nee is just a mocap to do, and know how to do, now if you ask me "how to do it" then srry i myself don't know because for now i don't need it and don't have budget to do that and probably gonna not do then i don't need to look for it.

again it's just a matter for you to proper do a look or maybe when you tried to used daz it not was good as today, but for sure daz can do a lot of many good things which i would love to see in CC base.

@Ellesar -
No need to call it an argument, this is all a discussion about what is possible and what is not.  Makumba666 I beleive was looking for perspectives on this topic, so everyone's perspective is valid.

But, let me ask you-
1) Good hair in Unreal with Daz or CC3 - I say hair will not be as good as it can look in say Octane, iClone, Blender, etc.
2) Facial motion capture in Daz - is this possible? - as far as I know, no.

So, respectively, 2 simple questions that should be very simple to answer if true-
1) Do you have a picture of your export from Daz to Unreal with good looking hair in Unreal?  PLEEEEASE....I would be very happy to see this, but I am imagining you do not.  Just know I hope I am wrong and you do!!!!!
2) And then, do you have ANY info on how to do actual facial motion capture (not puppeting) on a Daz character, such that it can be exported FROM DAZ to Unreal?  Again, I imagine you do not, but PLEEEASE show me!...

to be clear and finish this discussion it's looks like wre gonna argue forever because you can't even acnowledge your own words or what you had said



you clear say which you can't animate with daz what was wrong and you make it's looks you can do that in CC what is wrong, you told which only cc have "good bender" what is again wrong since even the tean recognized which they characters bend animations where not that good since it getting a update to improve it.

again we "are talking about CC and DAZ not about iclone, iclone and CC are 2 different tools, if you have CC3 stand alone you don't need iclone, i have bought the CC3 stand alone because i don't wated iclone, because i was planning to use some animations from mixamo and unreal market then i really don't need losing time animating it's my choice but it's means which iclone =//= CC, they are 2 tools, everything you are talking about is using CC with others tools, the talk here was about the "good and bad of "CC" and CC alone, the poster told what he don't liked when using CC and all the troublesome he had, i shared my experiencas and what i feel it's really bad with CC.

About hair to be fair i ended getting the best results with daz rater than with CC don't ask me how and why, but using CC hair they are too transparent and compl

And about paragon man, really you really are talking about "paragon??? how the hell that character (shinbi) does have the same poly count as a cc3 character??? you really don't know what you are talking about, she does have much more polygons on her body parts than CC and maybe even more than DAZ, if that characters does have a full body i could easy see her polly count around 100k (counting cloth too)


i'm really don't understand what you are trying to say or proof??

at last we agree on how really low polly the current CC character is and we do need a more "hd" at last on DAZ genesis 3 or 8 level of polygons, something between 17k and 20k could be perfect and don't just throw polygons on tong, teeth and eyes, as they did in the past, we have a high poly eyes balls and teeth and tong in a low polly base mesh currently.

One more thing, I am wishing too to have an export of a higher poly base, I have now asked for this in roadmap
https://forum.reallusion.com/FindPost410473.aspx

But, you know what...
the real problem with UE4 is not poly, or animation, or anything like that....
IT IS THE HAIR!!!

Daz, CC3, iClone - all the same, any transparency-based hair looks awful in UE4. 
And this is not the fault of Daz, CC3, or iClone, but the fault of Unreal.
Unreal does not have OIT - Order Independent Transparency- because it is too costly performance wise. 
And the Unreal crowd in general, as I have seen in their forums, it quite accepting of poor in-game looking hair.  It is just accepted as the trade-off for performance. 
And forget Daz and CC3 - Look at the Paragon characters. 
They have busts made of them and then in-game versions made of them.  Guess which daz and CC3 are more similar to - 
Yes, correct - the in-game version.   
Siren with all the beautiful hair, has super duper high poly spline based hair, not transparency based hair.
And, I have tried Daz/CC3/Paragon hair with the 'RTX-raytracing'...but, it does not 'fix' the look, it actually is just a raytraced version of the bad-looking hair!

Ellesar, look at these breakdowns, maybe this simplifies what we are saying-
With #7, I am thinking you are saying you can do this from Daz, but I am not sure a facial mocap of a Daz character into Maya gets brought back into Daz. 
Because with iClone and CC3, it is possible to bring the animation from iClone into CC3 and export out only using CC3. 
CC3 offers export of a stack of animations, which can all be accessed by Unreal. 
I don't believe that Daz, similar to iClone by itself, can accomplish this export of a 'stack' of accessible animations onto a single rig into Unreal.

1-Simple/Preset Character creation
(a) Daz paradigm - Daz
(b) RL paradigm - CC3, iClone

2-Complex Character creation
(a) Daz paradigm - Daz
(b) RL Paradigm - CC3

3- Compose Animation 
(a) Daz paradigm - Daz
(b) RL paradigm - iClone

4- Export pre-composed walk animation as part of FBX
(a) Daz paradigm - Daz
(b) RL paradigm - CC3, iClone 

5- Export complete scene animation as part of FBX
(a) Daz paradigm - Daz
(b) RL paradigm - iClone

6- Compose actual motion capture animation
(a) Daz Paradigm - Maya/3DS Max/Blender/C4D
(b) RL Paradigm - iClone

7- Export out motion capture
(a) Daz Paradigm - Maya/3DS Max/Blender/C4D......Daz???
(b) RL Paradigm - CC3, iClone

@Ellesar - you don't animate in CC3, you insert the animation files into the FBX being exported *from* CC3 to Unreal.  
But, are you aware that you can, in addition to this, you can also export an animation from iClone via FBX to Unreal?  (And yes, you would have to have iClone for this.) 
So, with iClone also, you actually have 2 ways of doing export of animation(s) -
(1) CC3 (with a stack of various motions as part of the FBX file); or
(2) iClone (with a single animation, like Daz would do).
Maybe you are not aware of this, or not familiar yet? 
I am thinking you are debating the point instead of just saying "Oh, I don't know what you mean, I am not familiar with this workflow yet...."

But, if no, then you teach me since you then claim the expertise here. 
Prove me wrong:
Because I know how to do Facial Mocap in iClone, to then export that same facial mocap animation file from CC3 to Unreal.

Q - How do I do a facial mocap motion (as in facial motion capture, not some composed puppet motion) in Daz, or from an outside source back into Daz, such that I can then export that motion out of Daz.

your problem was to say that these things could only be done in CC and not in DAZ, which is false information because you can do those same things in DAZ and even better because you can do animations in DAZ, which is a thing that can not be done in CC

here:


see, this is a wrong info.

and this is another difference between daz and CC, while in Daz you can animate you can't let's say decimate polygons, to do that you need a "payed addon" the decimator, what cc have on his base and somehow better because you can target specific places to decimate where in daz you can't.

That are the weird things comparing both each one have something amazing which would be a dream to have all of then in a single one, instead of scattered in different programs.

in a dream world utopic for me could be if cc or daz or any other or all of then could do all that thing on each one.

if cc could export morphs (which still outside they agenda)
have a better poly mesh (being worked)
export aswell bones face (looks like also being worked)
could also do animations without need iclone or other program like daz
and have a better library with better sales and prices
better way to work with masks (lipstick, eyebrows,make up) like others programs

then i could be happy throwing money like a monkey to CC but for now i'm currently throwing some money at daz because he does have a much better attractive and costumer friend market.