SSS is a BIG f%^$ing deal for me, water that isn't a joke is a big deal, struggling to get iClone to do what iClone just can't do is a big deal, it eats up its own time and energy, I think it is time to augment it. Regarding materials, I'm used to node setups at least enough to plug in the maps to the different channels, and there is a Substance importer now for Unreal. 

Seriously, I would much rather Reallusion updated their engine to handle these things, but I could wait years and still not see it. I want to have light filtering through skin realistically, that's part of what I want graphically. I get that some things are just hard and will take some study. 

Here's the tutorial I'm starting on tonight. Baby steps.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZlv_N0_O1gaiA_sfpjATUprVW7B9FcK1

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My system: i7 3770 Gtx1060 6GB

Why look at it as a defeat?

iClone is a TERRIFIC program to create animation and stories.  I can only tell you that in a decade or so ago, when I was doing this for a living, we would have KILLED almost anyone and anything to have iClone 7.  Do other rendering engines look better?  Absolutely.  Do they do some things that iClone can't?  Again, yep.  Do they allow you to tell stories you can't tell with iClone?

Ah, that's the whole thing, isn't it?  OF COURSE they don't.  Not only that -- you are unlikely to ever be able to tell stories as quickly or as efficiently as you can using iClone.  The proof is in the pudding, so to speak -- you will seldom (if ever) find any one-man shops using these tools to put together the kinds of stories you can find folks using iClone to do.  Teams, yes.  And even if you do find a person determined (and lucky) enough to have stuck with it to tell an incredible story with one of these tools... odds are great that same very talented individual could have done the same in iClone in far less time.

So don't get discouraged at all.  You have in your hands a set of tools that can envision almost anything, and if it doesn't look *quite* as good as something else... well, you and I know very well that, in the words of the immortal bard, "The Play's the Thing".  Doesn't matter one little iota how you tell your story.  If your story is good enough, you can tell it on the back porch of a run down tenement house using unskilled folks who can barely speak, wearing nothing but the rags on their back and your audience will be enchanted and removed and taken to the places you want to take them.

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Alienware Aurora R16, Win 11, i9-149000KF, 3.20GHz CPU, 64GB RAM, RTX 4090 (24GB), Samsung 870 Pro 8TB, Gen3 MVNe M-2 SSD, 4TBx2, 39" Alienware Widescreen Monitor
Mike "ex-genius" Kelley

Very well said Kelleytoons  !
I for one needed to hear that : )
iClone is a great piece of software.

Not comparable at all, but I have to say this looks sexy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kw1lvyZ8f3A

https://nm.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/9olt21/i_made_the_shire_from_lord_of_the_rings_in_far/?st=jnfszl9h&sh=d9fbdd35

OK, I'm digging Unreal and it is not rocket science, I use multiple complex production tools all the time, and IMO some things are easier to get done using multiple tools for what they do best, and it is only because I can't get the output from iClone that I look elsewhere. Now, i own the Pipeline version and it is not sacrilege or a creative failing to use more than just iClone, I bought it specifically so I could get Alembic output, and it is NOT HARD. If you don't have something to say about actually using a game engine and how to get it done efficiently, maybe this thread isn't for you. I'd really like to hear from people with working experience in this particular area, thanks.

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My system: i7 3770 Gtx1060 6GB

AND I have actual brain damage and I can grasp this, I dunno why this is considered so hard. It's really not. Unreal's curve editor and workflow is pretty slick too, all for nothing. I'm not that far from where I need to be on the learning curve, I just would appreciate experienced insight into how to actually get it done. 

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My system: i7 3770 Gtx1060 6GB

Nvidia GameWorks is really what I'm excited about, it would be wonderful if Reallusion incorporated it.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


My system: i7 3770 Gtx1060 6GB

"Now, i own the Pipeline version and it is not sacrilege or a creative failing 

to use more than just iClone, I bought it specifically so I could get Alembic to use more than just iClone, I bought it specifically so I could get Alembic output, and it is NOT HARD. If you don't have something to say about output, and it is NOT HARD. If you don't have something to say about actually using a game engine and how to get it done efficiently, maybe this actually using a game engine and how to get it done efficiently, maybe this 

thread isn't for you."thread isn't for you."

RAG DOLL COLLISION ANIMATIONS FOR ICLONE 8 & 7
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Ghost Origins

My latest Feature length film created with Iclone.

My Sci- Fi Graphic Novel on Amazon: https://a.co/d/9k3cwoY

My IMDB listing
Anabran Abdhul Quarnain - IMDb

I wouldn't set the Boy and His Kite as a benchmark for a good production.  Just realize yours could look like there's, after you learn it.  
With UE4, that node stuff does look menacing, but it's just a visual representation of current tweaks to a material, so it's not like you have to understand the whole thing from start, you can make it more complex as you move along.

Oh, as far as updating iClone's native realtime PBR - look at this discussion, too:
https://forum.reallusion.com/385872/Iray-with-iclone-a-game-changer?PageIndex=5

I never tried Alembic to UE4, I am wondering what benefits are involved, vs FBX export? 
The soft-cloth/hair collision movement on an animation?

Okay dont get mad at me but I will give you some input on unreal and why I prefer to use blender for making movies.   Its the blueprint system and the fact its a real time game engine there are limitations around bones.  In fact Blender is simpler to use for movie making to me then unreal is.   I spent the last while working on a couple games with people and my take away from the entire situation is this.  Unreal is a game engine first and a movie making tool last.   I used unity eons ago as well but if i was to compare it to unreal.  Unreal is better, but it is a game engine.  Its unreal skeleton has a severe bone limit (way more limited then iclone) and I found the import pipeline well cumbersome because of its blueprint system.  If you dont use the unreal skeleton you have to create blueprints for all your little dudes you import.    They added a clothing system but this is another quandry unless your characters are prebuilt with clothing attached already, but I guess if you use the CC3 you can make lots of characters.    But if you make your own stuff or your stuff is atypical your going to run into constraints that iclone doesnt have.  So there is good and bad with them all.      

The biggest thing you will miss from all of them including Blender is speech engine.   But I am wierd and my fun is in the making not the end result.     

For movie making though in my opinion using something like unreal is more complex and limitting then just using a render plugin in a 3D software.  In short when people tell me "blender is hard" but they go and use Unreal I get puzzled lol.   

(and on that note when i mention speech engine.. I wonder why I havent scoured the internet to see if someone coded one for blender lol *goes to look* probably because i have been moving towards non talking stuff as I change my stories and interests) 

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"You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes. You can steer yourself in any direction you choose. You're on your own, and you know what you know. And you are the guy who'll decide where to go."
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     Dr. Seuss

In short when people tell me "blender is hard" but they go and use Unreal I get puzzled lol.

I totally agree!  Blender isn't difficult... it's different.  Making animated movies is a lot of work regardless of which system you use, and since the 'story' is the whole point of the animation in the first place I can't see the reason in using any system that will eventually will smack you in the face with it's limitations.  The guys making amazing productions with Unity/Unreal are doing 95% of the work in the most comprehensive 3D packages available - so, if they need better cloth simulations or fracture simulations etc. they are already using the best tools for the job.  Even the best "off the shelf" software like Maya/Max/Houdini/C4D have limits for the "big boys" (ILM, DreamWorks, Weta etc.) but they have the R+D teams/budgets to build tools they require - and almost always as tools for their prime 3D software.

Let's just say, you could export your scene with Alembic characters and get the 'same' result in UE4 and Blender's eevee - both involve similar amounts of manual labour and learning new stuff... so why would you choose the software that by the very nature of it's design will slam you in the face half way through your production?

 A shovel can knock spikes into the ground as well as a hammer, but I wouldn't want to dig a hole with a hammer ;-)