...... so .... if I have a video file that 'plays' for 10 secs and was recorded at a frame rate of 24fps, then I have 240 frames total.
 If however, I have a video file that 'plays' for 10 secs and was recorded at a frame rate of 30fps, then I have 300 frames total.

And yet in both the above examples, the original iClone timeline would have shown 600 frames.
Iclonic frames :P

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Please be patient with me ..... I don't always 'get it' the first time 'round - not even the 2nd time! :(  - yikes! ... 

● MSI GT72VR Laptop, i7 7700HQ 4-Core 3.8 GHz 16GB RAM; Nvidia 1070, 8GB Vram ● iClone-7.93 ● 3DXChange Pipeline 7.81 ● CC-3 Pipeline 3.44 ● Live Face ● HeadShot ● Brekel Pro-Body ● Popcorn FX ● iRAY ● Kinect V2 ● DaVinci Resolve17 ● Mixcraft 8.1

Looks like there is great confusion in defining conditions.

Again, Image sequence is broken no doubt about it.

AVI rendering works just fine - no problems there (Peter was referring to this method of rendering)

AVI RENDER
Time line - you select 240 frames - 4 seconds - 60fps
Final resulted render @ 24fps - 96 frames - 4 seconds - 24fps

Where the problem here?
 

Unfortunately you are wrong. 

You are forgetting that iClone runs internally @ 60fps. So 240 frames is 4 seconds in iClone not 10 seconds. If you render 240 frames to video it will be 4 seconds long no matter which frame rate you use.


                                                                

Peter
Forum Administrator

www.reallusion.com

Then, Peter, iClone is wrong.

240 frames is 10 seconds at 24fps.  It has always been so.  iClone cannot make it different, even though it wants it to be.  And if rendering an AVI sequence of 240 frames is ALWAYS 4 seconds no matter what frame rate you select, then it's also wrong.

Personally I don't care.  I rendered for decades at 24fps because my friend Spielberg told me to do so and because 2D animation looked a LOT better that way.  Nowadays 60fps is the "new normal" (although 120 and even 240fps are getting to be used in the industry).  But for those who need and want 24fps iClone cannot do it.  And simply saying it can does not make it so.

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Alienware Aurora R16, Win 11, i9-149000KF, 3.20GHz CPU, 64GB RAM, RTX 4090 (24GB), Samsung 870 Pro 8TB, Gen3 MVNe M-2 SSD, 4TBx2, 39" Alienware Widescreen Monitor
Mike "ex-genius" Kelley

If you render directly to AVI or MP4, it might be making what's really happening

10 seconds at 24 fps = 240 frames
10 seconds at 30 fps = 300 frames
10 seconds at 60 fps = 600 frames

So the VIDEO you produce might look correct, but how many FRAMES are generated for your 10-second video?

Rendering to a sequence of images makes it much more clear.

So the question is...  If you want a 10-second video at 30 fps, how many frames is iClone actually rendering?  300?  Or 600 (half of which were unwanted)?

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iClone 7... Character Creator... Substance Designer/Painter... Blender... Audacity...
Desktop (homebuilt) - Windows 10, Ryzen 9 3900x CPU, GTX 1080 GPU (8GB), 32GB RAM, Asus X570 Pro motherboard, 2TB SSD, terabytes of disk space, dual  monitors.
Laptop - Windows 10, MSI GS63VR STEALTH-252, 16GB RAM, GTX 1060 (6GB), 256GB SSD and 1TB HDD

Ok - I know that RL has a beat on the issue, so I myself expect a fix sooner rather than later.

But, I think the back and forth is just a semantic confusion, where really everyone is correct, if that makes sense.
Because, if you render a scene, there are 2 components:
The (1) timeline's total frame count, and then the (2) # frames outputted...
You have to stipulate which one you mean when you say total frames.

Okay, so if your project timeline is 240 frames, and you render @24 FPS, you would get 4 seconds worth of video, just at a choppier 24 FPS frame rate.
Because you are telling the timeline, to only process 24/60th of the frame total, which comes out to frames processed of 96.
24/60 = .4, and .4 * 240 = 96, and 96 frames/4 seconds = FPS 24

But, okay, forget that, because then you also have some theoretic instance where the frames processed for an image sequence, or frames processed for the total video, was 240 frames. 
If that was the outcome, and the FPS was at @24, then yes, it would be 10 seconds of video...

See?
No one is actually wrong, depending on how it is semantically viewed.
Actually - you are both correct!!!
:Wow: 

Okay, so I did (late last night when I was far too tired to get on my computer) understand what Rampa and Pete were trying to get at, so just to confirm things in my mind I did a test... and the results of the test still convince me iClone is broken insofar as rendering at any other rate that 60fps (unless I'm just seeing something these old eyes don't understand.  That happens all the time but usually large amounts of alcohol are involved).

Try this, guys: render an AVI at 30fps with some motion on it and put it on a billboard in the same scene.  Now play it back with the arrow keys, stepping through the timeline.  Does anything look odd to you?  What I would have *expected* to see (assuming we are saying that iClone always operates at 60fps and that when you output at a different frame rate it timeslices that 60fps at whatever frame rate you choose) was every other frame being the motion one.  IOW, you press the key once and nothing moves, and then the next time it does move, and so on.

Now -- it does do this.  A bit.  But it also sometimes moves every single frame, and then takes two or three frames to "catch up".  IOW, it certainly looks (again, to these old eyes) that it is broken.  This happens whether I have "Realtime" or "By Frame" selected, so something odd is definitely going on (I didn't even try 24fps, as I don't think my brain could digest that).

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Alienware Aurora R16, Win 11, i9-149000KF, 3.20GHz CPU, 64GB RAM, RTX 4090 (24GB), Samsung 870 Pro 8TB, Gen3 MVNe M-2 SSD, 4TBx2, 39" Alienware Widescreen Monitor
Mike "ex-genius" Kelley

You got to be kidding me Mike. Broken what?
What exactly are you trying to prove by placing an uncompressed AVI onto the billboard and trying to scrub it real time and expect it to play right?
Did I just managed to ask 2 questions in one? :)
Just open the damn thing in any video editor and check how many frames it has, what is the fps and what is the exact duration. :crazy:

Well, I wasn't scrubbing it in real time, but in by frames.  And it IS 2am here (well, at least when I wrote and tried that) so my eyes (and brain) may not be working yet.

But tell me this -- why *wouldn't* it scrub properly in by frame?  Are you saying iClone isn't accurate enough so that we can't move through the timeline by frame and expect to see what we should see?

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Alienware Aurora R16, Win 11, i9-149000KF, 3.20GHz CPU, 64GB RAM, RTX 4090 (24GB), Samsung 870 Pro 8TB, Gen3 MVNe M-2 SSD, 4TBx2, 39" Alienware Widescreen Monitor
Mike "ex-genius" Kelley

You cannot scrub it real time (or even byFrame) and expect the uncompressed monster AVI to play right. Not everything looks right in view port until we render it. Even animated objects in heavy loaded scene would not move right sometimes. But then again if we start talking about view-port inefficiency that would be whole different story. But it always does it right at render. Just render it again and see the result...

Oh boy, Mike you made me do this stupid mirror...
Embedded video at the plane was 30 fps of the same project. Whole thing was rendered again at 30fps