Ok - I know that RL has a beat on the issue, so I myself expect a fix sooner rather than later.

But, I think the back and forth is just a semantic confusion, where really everyone is correct, if that makes sense.
Because, if you render a scene, there are 2 components:
The (1) timeline's total frame count, and then the (2) # frames outputted...
You have to stipulate which one you mean when you say total frames.

Okay, so if your project timeline is 240 frames, and you render @24 FPS, you would get 4 seconds worth of video, just at a choppier 24 FPS frame rate.
Because you are telling the timeline, to only process 24/60th of the frame total, which comes out to frames processed of 96.
24/60 = .4, and .4 * 240 = 96, and 96 frames/4 seconds = FPS 24

But, okay, forget that, because then you also have some theoretic instance where the frames processed for an image sequence, or frames processed for the total video, was 240 frames. 
If that was the outcome, and the FPS was at @24, then yes, it would be 10 seconds of video...

See?
No one is actually wrong, depending on how it is semantically viewed.
Actually - you are both correct!!!
:Wow: 

If you render directly to AVI or MP4, it might be making what's really happening

10 seconds at 24 fps = 240 frames
10 seconds at 30 fps = 300 frames
10 seconds at 60 fps = 600 frames

So the VIDEO you produce might look correct, but how many FRAMES are generated for your 10-second video?

Rendering to a sequence of images makes it much more clear.

So the question is...  If you want a 10-second video at 30 fps, how many frames is iClone actually rendering?  300?  Or 600 (half of which were unwanted)?

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iClone 7... Character Creator... Substance Designer/Painter... Blender... Audacity...
Desktop (homebuilt) - Windows 10, Ryzen 9 3900x CPU, GTX 1080 GPU (8GB), 32GB RAM, Asus X570 Pro motherboard, 2TB SSD, terabytes of disk space, dual  monitors.
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Then, Peter, iClone is wrong.

240 frames is 10 seconds at 24fps.  It has always been so.  iClone cannot make it different, even though it wants it to be.  And if rendering an AVI sequence of 240 frames is ALWAYS 4 seconds no matter what frame rate you select, then it's also wrong.

Personally I don't care.  I rendered for decades at 24fps because my friend Spielberg told me to do so and because 2D animation looked a LOT better that way.  Nowadays 60fps is the "new normal" (although 120 and even 240fps are getting to be used in the industry).  But for those who need and want 24fps iClone cannot do it.  And simply saying it can does not make it so.

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Alienware Aurora R16, Win 11, i9-149000KF, 3.20GHz CPU, 64GB RAM, RTX 4090 (24GB), Samsung 870 Pro 8TB, Gen3 MVNe M-2 SSD, 4TBx2, 39" Alienware Widescreen Monitor
Mike "ex-genius" Kelley

Unfortunately you are wrong. 

You are forgetting that iClone runs internally @ 60fps. So 240 frames is 4 seconds in iClone not 10 seconds. If you render 240 frames to video it will be 4 seconds long no matter which frame rate you use.


                                                                

Peter
Forum Administrator

www.reallusion.com

Looks like there is great confusion in defining conditions.

Again, Image sequence is broken no doubt about it.

AVI rendering works just fine - no problems there (Peter was referring to this method of rendering)

AVI RENDER
Time line - you select 240 frames - 4 seconds - 60fps
Final resulted render @ 24fps - 96 frames - 4 seconds - 24fps

Where the problem here?
 

 
...... so .... if I have a video file that 'plays' for 10 secs and was recorded at a frame rate of 24fps, then I have 240 frames total.
 If however, I have a video file that 'plays' for 10 secs and was recorded at a frame rate of 30fps, then I have 300 frames total.

And yet in both the above examples, the original iClone timeline would have shown 600 frames.
Iclonic frames :P

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Please be patient with me ..... I don't always 'get it' the first time 'round - not even the 2nd time! :(  - yikes! ... 

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Yeah -- let's get this straight, folks, for some who lack a BASIC UNDERSTANDING OF ANIMATION.

FPS is the frames per second that are rendered and are shown on the screen.  You render at 24FPS means YOU GET 24FRAMES RENDERED FOR EACH SECOND OF ANIMATION.  I don't know how this isn't any clearer, but apparently some folks just aren't animators.

So if you render 240 frames, you should get 10 seconds at 24fps.  There isn't any if ands or butts about this.  Rendering 240 frames and getting 4 seconds of animation at 24fps is wrong, plain and simple (that is 60fps, no matter how you slice it).

I may be wrong about a lot of things, but I absolutely am not wrong about this.  Folks who think otherwise are.

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Alienware Aurora R16, Win 11, i9-149000KF, 3.20GHz CPU, 64GB RAM, RTX 4090 (24GB), Samsung 870 Pro 8TB, Gen3 MVNe M-2 SSD, 4TBx2, 39" Alienware Widescreen Monitor
Mike "ex-genius" Kelley

That puzzles me too.
a) WHY were they in that part of the code in the first place?
b) If they were knowingly editing that code, then they should have tested it thoroughly
c) If they unknowingly edited that code, then they have a completely different, very serious problem
d) I don't understand why Peter(RL) doesn't seem to see the problem everyone else is.  It's not just the "duration" but the number of frames that make up the clip.

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iClone 7... Character Creator... Substance Designer/Painter... Blender... Audacity...
Desktop (homebuilt) - Windows 10, Ryzen 9 3900x CPU, GTX 1080 GPU (8GB), 32GB RAM, Asus X570 Pro motherboard, 2TB SSD, terabytes of disk space, dual  monitors.
Laptop - Windows 10, MSI GS63VR STEALTH-252, 16GB RAM, GTX 1060 (6GB), 256GB SSD and 1TB HDD

In Vegas (and I guess in other NLEs) you can adjust the playback speed, but you still waste time by having to render double (or more) the number of frames.

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The project frame rate is always 60 fps, so 240 frames in the project is 4 seconds; no problem there. The render frame rate should adjust the number of frames that are rendered: for example, 96 at 24 fps; 100 at 25 fps; and 120 at 30 fps. It seems that RL left that conversion part out for some reason.

What I don't understand is why existing functionality is suddenly bugged. The need for regression testing has been mentioned repeatedly, and RL should seriously consider that. A new release should be a joyous occasion but is now soured by the fact that existing functionality no longer works as expected. I'd rather have a release that's two weeks later to allow time for regression testing.

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