Alright so I'm sure everyone's seen (or will see) this when they enter the forum.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOEiXEd-6dk

Interesting... but I'm sorry... THAT, kind of pushes iCLone out of the machi field...

It's kind of odd to watch actually... It's like... Microsoft now advertising that Word can make comics or something...

It's still interesting and I still have not tried the popvideo thing even though I think I can use Sony to turn my blue cover (poorman's blue screeen) into a black background. So hopefully I won't need that because I'm thinking of STILL getting 3DX... yeah I haven't gotten it yet... but the point is that iClone CAN do machi... but now it's kind of evolving into a realtime 3D graphics and animation and presentation tool.. and somewhat of a video editor too kind of...

So it sort of is the consumer friendly version of MachStudio Pro which I don't mind at all. I like that it's evolving.



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Hmm... well just so you konw.. the other machi tools aren't free... Moviestorm is free... until you wanna use content other than what comes with it...

Um... The game engins ain't free. The source engine isn't free to my knowledge. Garry's mod isn't free either as far as I konw.

But in a sense, that's how any 3D app works. You can get 3DS Max and then "oh, I need this this and that"... oops, guess I gotta buy this plugin.

With iClone you DO NOT have to buy packs you konw... You can buy 3DX (a plugin) and just use whatever you want from blender) You DO NOT have to buy an animation pack... there are a TON of free animation files.

You CAN make your own faces and thinsg for iClone... and can use the clonecloth and make all your own stuff... there are the 3D blocks... use those.

Oh, Blender's free but there are PAYED things to learn how to use it.

test01 makes a good point, but iClone's not the only one to do this or who wants money.

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I am not somebody to defend some of Reallusion marketing techniques but you claim that other machinema communities supply training and content for free and this stopes Iclone going mainstream.

This is an argument that can only work if Iclone is a Machinema tool and nothing else as the buying of content is not unusual in the 3D world look at Daz and Poser for a kick off, and there are other asaspects to the Iclone community that supply a large range of content free or for a very reasonable price ( RL content is at a premium price though but good ). The thing is though is it this that causes Machinema groups to look down on Iclone or that Iclone is a different kind of tool.

what does mainstream mean in Machinema terms? and what are the Mainstream programs used in the Machinema community ?



I Make My Mates Do The CanCan For The Amusement Of Killer Robots:D

[rant]
I would disagree with the above statement. Most machinima communities employ total creative freedom... for FREE. Meaning, most mods are passed along at no cost by other users. iClone is a marketing ploy to get you in bed to purchase more software add-ins such as props, actors, and motions. This plan may make them money - who really knows, but it is also the biggest barrier to taking the program mainstream.

You do buy the software thinking, "it is a 3D movie making machine, packed with props, actors, cameras and all you need to produce your animation movies" and then realize it doesn't quite get you there, and boom, you end-up purchasing more stuff. It basically pits the users against each other by taking away the advantage of sharing free ideas and mods that drives growth in other communities.

Overall, this is the biggest disapointment with the program and community. Everyone is trying to make a buck on this thing. You need something, people will point you straight to a motion pack or clothing pack. Also, you really need 3ds Max to move beyond standard default characters and motions. Hell, dudes are even charging people for classes to learn to use the software. I can't even get a straight answer on why they choose the default character's included with program. What can you really make with uncle Benny?

The business aspect of the company tied to the users truly undermines the overall community.

[/end of rant]

I would argue that Software like Music needs to be catagorised and labeled, if it was not then we would need to sift through pages and pages of software lists hoping the name gave some indication of what the software does.

Take Iclone for example if i wanted to do a video sequence now possible with the 3D video montage add on but Iclone is sold as a 3D character animation program I would not think to explore it as a video special effects program.:)





I Make My Mates Do The CanCan For The Amusement Of Killer Robots:D

Agreed.

The original question is based on a fallacious premise that software need be categorised and labelled.

All artists seek to create something original, critics seek to categorise their work and judge it acording to their criteria.

Personally, I am happy describing it as a 3d animation tool in the same sentence as I'd describe Microsoft as a software company. Who cares?

I buy a hammer to knock in a nail. It's for the salesman to persuade me his particular hammer is going to give me feelings of joy and happiness as I construct my dog kennel.

Kind regards,

Alex

Interesting topic.
I think it is a 3D movie making machine, packed with props, actors, cameras and all you need to produce your animation movies.

it is real time so it is hardware dependent and sure the render isnt GI and AO but as a tool for character animation sure rocks and still packs some juice for people who are starting and not willing to spend some real money in other software packages.

iClone is one of a kind, and if it doesnt go "the game style" software I would be happy!

Peace
Miguel

That's a good point.

Frankly, I dooon't care what it's called. You can call it machinima, you can call it 3D movie making in realtime... you can call it BACON if you want! I don't care. I just want to make raw lookin' movies without having to wait two years for anyone to see it... JUST to realize that there was a slight flaw that will have to cause me to RERENDER it ALL OVER AGAIN.

Am I trying to make a good machi (my cute version of the word machinima)... I have NO IDEA... Am I trying to make a nice looking movie with an interesting story... YES.

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i think a lot of people are getting hung up on semantics - machinima has its origins in game engines and there are purist who will defend this and belittle non game engine based movies

but now as user created movies becomes more and more prevalent, i think this distinction will blur - communites like TMU are basically becoming more engine agnostic and more content/storyline focused. In fact some of the community have started using the term "anymation" - to describe these movies (i am using 'mycinema' first as a play on 'machinma' and also to indicate these are movies created by me using engines selected by me)

to me i would describe iclone simply as a movie making software - you are the director and the software provides you the sets and characters which you can enhance by using actual voice actors

a lot of energy has gone on to request various features such as collision detection, physics, motion synthesis -these capabilities will surely make you more efficient, make your movies look a lot better but ultimately it is the story and how you tell it that matters and all of these become transparent once you export your movie

now there is of course another camp who enjoy exploring the technical aspects and test various capabilities, putting out test videos and such - to them iclone is a hobby program compared to the likes of maya, 3ds max since it does not have feature a, b, and c and they are right in that context

yes I've played with Carrara for a while before I found iClone... and yes I've not played with the physics much, but I know everytime I want to do something in there I run into a different and for that reason I don't use it as much besides modeling I guess.

Now BLENDER has fun physics with hair and cloth that you can play with in real time... sure it's a LITTLE choppy, but it's still fun to watch. Now if only they could put that in their game engine... althoughyou can bake the cloth animations into the geometry so you can fake dynamic cloth in games and everything.

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