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Reallusion iClone7 Content Using Physics Toolbox ?

Posted By GOETZIWOOD STUDIOS 7 Years Ago
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james_muia
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grabiller (3/10/2018)
And when you follow this tutorial it still does not work on your side ?


It's working after following the tutorial. The key I was missing is to change the physics back from bullet physics to the default physics engine.

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LogicalWarrior
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grabiller (3/13/2018)
@LogicalWarrior
The Physics Toolbox has nothing to do with embedded behaviors such as figures/vehicles interaction. It is a pretty fun tool that allows you to build quite complex even original physics systems/rigs using the Bullet physics engine in a way you can then "puppet" the system by injecting forces in realtime and record the resulting animation of course.

You can find detailed information in the product page: https://www.reallusion.com/contentstore/csproduct.aspx?contentid=AIC500DIENU050120120210001&MenuItem=iC_Plugin&Type=Plug-in

Afaik what they do not say is that while any setup built with this toolbox can be used/puppeteered with the most recent versions of iClone, including v7.2, to edit such system you need to use iClone v5, else you don't have access to the Bullet Physics properties panels anymore.
If you are new to iClone then you are f.... or perhaps you can ask Reallusion to give you access to iClone v5 download. What's amazing is that Reallusion is still selling NEW PRODUCTS using that Physics Toolbox.

Not sure what happened but someone at Reallusion - for some reason - decided that, well, Bullet was not good enough (while being the industry standard), or easy enough to maintain or whatever, so he decided to replace it with PhysX which is GPU accelerated for sure. Then what ? Oh.. we will simply "omit" the Bullet properties panels in the next versions and that's it (and of course no "PhysX Toolbox" to compensate the loss). This could be seen as spitting on the product buyers.

Don't get me wrong I love the iClone ecosystem but what happened with this product is still hard to swallow.


Thank you so much for your reply and explanation. So, apparently, it just seems like RL is just getting more and more LAZY with what they are producing, since they know that as far as animating software is concerned, they are somewhat at the top of the list as far as  "ease of use" is concerned, over Poser, or DAZ's AniMate/AniBlocks for animating. I believe if there was another program out that was just as easy to use, and developed an even better system of features, (i.e. MIRRORS) they wouldn't be so comfortable with the "better take what we give you and be happy with it..." theory of production.

I'm not trying to start anything, but as you stated, for us new users, we don't have these kind of work-a-rounds, which lead to feeling like we are being shorted out with out experiences, or as you so rightfully/delicately put it...SCREWED (only using a stronger descriptive wording...LOL)!

As you stated, Grabiller, if they are going to continue to use this system for new product, then they should at least update the software so that we can manipulate anything using this older technology, or find a way to merge it somehow. Otherwise, if we being new to the whole iClone system, found out about the details of what was versus what is, I'm sure iClone would not even have been as successful with the sales that they have now with iC7, knowing that these drawbacks were there. They would be asking for a copy of the older program. AS I have always said, even as a gamer, visuals and effects are AWESOME, but if it has to sacrifice features, ease of use, fun, etc., then I'd take the features, ease of use, fun factors any day over graphics and visuals. I've actually seen quite a few iC5 movies on Youtube, one being my favorite (Lost in the Tomb, by Rene Jacob a.k.a. Direx1974 on Youtube).

One other thing, and I'm just going to put it out there, I really am just having a problem with this iClone company all around. Well this is the reason...I'm feeling as if I should never invest in iClone anymore because they're not trying to fix the mirror issues, also they're rip offs because everything is based on plugins. Now, granted the fact they had a special running for the curve editor tool to be free during the pre-order for the pipeline purchasers was good and all, but to me that should've came with iClone 7 anyway...not as a plugin that had to be paid for in addition. For what they were charging, it should have been more to it, and that's all I'm really saying at this time. PBR (here again, VISUALS) is fine and dandy, but what good is that, if you can't do anything with it? I'm sure no one would want to have to keep reverting to work-a-rounds, especially if there were features, once upon a time, available to this franchise (i.e. MIRRORS and BULLET manipulation system, etc.) that should have just stayed, all for VISUAL compensation. Okay, you added the Morph System as well, granted. Still, it doesn't fix the fact that the things which are being used now (Bullet system) for newer product can't be manipulated because it was discontinued 2 generations ago, oh and um.....MIRRORS!!

I'm very specific with my work, and I don't play games when it comes to productivity and quality. I'm not the best film maker, but with what I have, I try to do the best I can given that I have the right tools to do so. Knowing that there were essential features available 2 version ago omitted just for visual enhancements, make it hard for me to be happy with my investment. Again, I mentioned that I used the Movies Game software, which is like super outdated, for my movie making prior to this one, and with the highly limited features in that program, I still managed to come away with some good quality work, even with the lack of graphic detailing. To me, the story is what matters, and if it's told right, the visual quality can be forgiven easily. It has happened in many cases in film making. Everyone doesn't have advanced visual technology, so you have to find another way to capture the eye of the audience. Delivery of the story is the best selling point to any kind of production, on all levels. Anytime when one starts feeling like they had a better time with an ancient program over something that should be well past it's level of functionality, that's when things get a little complicated. That's where I am. In my movie, Superhero (very early stage development...) the guy looks in the mirror in the bathroom scene to see what he has become as the major reveal scene, and the camera. Can't do that now using this software because there are no mirrors, and I'm DEFINITELY NOT writing that scene out, because it's a crucial part for the change of the movie's plot leading to the climax. So, I'll just see what happens. Hopefully, they will see how many people are complaining about this same thing and maybe decide to bring it back. :d
GOETZIWOOD STUDIOS
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It is scientifically known that for old peoples - or so called "seniors" (50+ I believe) - resolving crossed words maintains mental activity and delays senility. I don't know why but I've chosen to use iClone instead, lots of challenges here and issues to solve, it is like a therapy to me. And if I really can't solve something then I get the heavy artillery - Houdini - and solve it in there. You can actually create a mirror in iClone v7.2 but I'll let you search a little, there is at least two ways ;)

I've stopped to try to understand the "Big Picture" Reallusion may have that leads them to make certain choices. In fact I think they simply don't have one and just follow the market, the industry and business opportunities. So for a iClone user that basically means praying that those circumstances cross the user needs. It happens sometimes on little features or details, sometimes on big features, but never as a all. You are always pleased and disappointed at the same time at each release. And this will last as long as you are strong enough to handle it, psychologically and financially ;)


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LogicalWarrior
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grabiller (3/14/2018)
It is scientifically known that for old peoples - or so called "seniors" (50+ I believe) - resolving crossed words maintains mental activity and delays senility. I don't know why but I've chosen to use iClone instead, lots of challenges here and issues to solve, it is like a therapy to me. And if I really can't solve something then I get the heavy artillery - Houdini - and solve it in there. You can actually create a mirror in iClone v7.2 but I'll let you search a little, there is at least two ways ;)

I've stopped to try to understand the "Big Picture" Reallusion may have that leads them to make certain choices. In fact I think they simply don't have one and just follow the market, the industry and business opportunities. So for a iClone user that basically means praying that those circumstances cross the user needs. It happens sometimes on little features or details, sometimes on big features, but never as a all. You are always pleased and disappointed at the same time at each release. And this will last as long as you are strong enough to handle it, psychologically and financially ;)


Very well spoken! So, what's this Houdini? And I did actually see some places where they explained workarounds. It's just really not an excuse as to why we would have to rely on workarounds, but hey, I went ahead and did the research on it. So, I agree with you on that. It's just time consuming adding to production time, that shouldn't be the case, that's all I'm saying. Then again, if everything was easy, exactly how you wanted it, and smooth flowing, it wouldn't be life, right? :D LOL
3d guy1
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houdini is a high VFX software most studios use.   But has very steep learning curve.
LogicalWarrior
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wd70 (3/14/2018)
houdini is a high VFX software most studios use.   But has very steep learning curve.


Is it anything like   3DSMax, or Maya, kind of software?
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LogicalWarrior (3/15/2018)
wd70 (3/14/2018)
houdini is a high VFX software most studios use.   But has very steep learning curve.

Is it anything like   3DSMax, or Maya, kind of software?

Yes and No. It is a general 3d DCC tools but with a procedural approach. It is more powerful than any other 3d application on the market but certainly not the most user or artist friendly albeit they did huge progresses on that side lately.
You can buy the Indie version (~$300), which makes it the cheapest all around, generic, most powerful 3d DCC tool ever (the cheapest one being Blender because it's free but it is not as powerful as Houdini).
But if you are lazy, impatient, over 40, you don't have a "I love to solve issues and puzzles" mind then forget about it ;) (just kidding about the age btw).
I have started to use it around 2003 and I still have a lot to learn and figure out ^^ But this is my secret weapon nonetheless (especially at work obviously, doing VFX).
I wish iClone could import Alembic files so I could send elements from iClone to Houdini then send back simulations to iClone, but.. It can be done at some point through morph animation but this applies only if the topology does not change.
For the particles I wonder if PopcornFX, through its editor is able to import external particles simulation. I'll have to investigate that, when I'll have PopcornFX..

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LogicalWarrior
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grabiller (3/15/2018)
LogicalWarrior (3/15/2018)
wd70 (3/14/2018)
houdini is a high VFX software most studios use.   But has very steep learning curve.

Is it anything like   3DSMax, or Maya, kind of software?

Yes and No. It is a general 3d DCC tools but with a procedural approach. It is more powerful than any other 3d application on the market but certainly not the most user or artist friendly albeit they did huge progresses on that side lately.
You can buy the Indie version (~$300), which makes it the cheapest all around, generic, most powerful 3d DCC tool ever (the cheapest one being Blender because it's free but it is not as powerful as Houdini).
But if you are lazy, impatient, over 40, you don't have a "I love to solve issues and puzzles" mind then forget about it ;) (just kidding about the age btw).
I have started to use it around 2003 and I still have a lot to learn and figure out ^^ But this is my secret weapon nonetheless (especially at work obviously, doing VFX).
I wish iClone could import Alembic files so I could send elements from iClone to Houdini then send back simulations to iClone, but.. It can be done at some point through morph animation but this applies only if the topology does not change.
For the particles I wonder if PopcornFX, through its editor is able to import external particles simulation. I'll have to investigate that, when I'll have PopcornFX..


Well, I do have ParticleFX, although, I haven't tried that theory out, and is a good idea to do so. I have/use Adobe Suite for my Production software (Premiere/AfterEffects), with a little help from DAZ and Maya for other means necessary (converting MD7 clothing creations into iClone CC). And I have actually started using Blender back in the day with The Sims game, and the Movies Game before I got introduced to Maya 2012. So, I'm a little familiar with the workflow of it, but I've been a Maya fan ever since. :D

Oh by the way, I am above 40 as well, so you could very well be spot on about everything you said about us (well, except for the lazy part...LOL)! :d I think that is just a thing that happens as you get older. You become a little less tolerant of things, as you feel at this stage you don't have as much time to put into things, as you had when you were in the 20s, and could waste time, if you wanted to so to speak with little to no consequences! :D
GOETZIWOOD STUDIOS
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LogicalWarrior (3/15/2018)
Well, I do have ParticleFX, although, I haven't tried that theory out, and is a good idea to do so../..

Do not hesitate to share your findings if something interesting comes up in this area. I'm very curious about it.


LogicalWarrior (3/15/2018)
../.. Oh by the way, I am above 40 as well, so you could very well be spot on about everything you said about us (well, except for the lazy part...LOL)! :d I think that is just a thing that happens as you get older. You become a little less tolerant of things, as you feel at this stage you don't have as much time to put into things, as you had when you were in the 20s, and could waste time, if you wanted to so to speak with little to no consequences! :D

I'm 50 and I have to admit if I were to discover Houdini only now I would clearly be a bit discouraged to learn it from scratch ;)

That said, these few last years Houdini came out of the dark and has been adopted by the gaming industry as well (mostly thanks to the Houdini Engine), so more and more peoples are using it and understand it is not a VFX tool but just a "General" (in its true meaning) tool that include VFX :), and more and more nice tutorials and courses have been made, either free or paid. So I believe it may be a little bit easier to learn it nowadays than back in the days where Houdini was reserved to some alchemists carefully hidden in the basement of a few VFX companies ;).

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I admit that I am quite surprised by reading this discussion ... Am I the only one to find the results of the Physic Toolbox are not good? Maybe it's a cutting-edge technology, I do not know, but if it's one, then the version we have here is completely restrained!

Indeed, there is a new pack of vehicles that is very well done, but the demo of the vehicle that rolls on the dunes is like any other. Physical engine reactions are bad!
The set is rigid and hopping. There is no inertia in the movements, the contact on the ground is incoherent, etc ... in short .. for me, it does not work.

Maybe I'm wrong but I have never seen a vehicle video made with Iclone that is interesting (for physical reactions). If you have a good example, I will be very interested. I bought this engine, I had some tests but I never took the time to really learn because between my tests and the video I saw, I really afraid of wasting my time. ..

https://forum.reallusion.com/uploads/images/0a0894ca-d56b-4356-859c-f08b.jpg


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