Reallusion iClone7 Content Using Physics Toolbox ?

Reallusion iClone7 Content Using Physics Toolbox ?

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https://forum.reallusion.com/Topic358007.aspx

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By GOETZIWOOD STUDIOS - 7 Years Ago

Recently I stumbled upon this tutorial: Tutorial - Playset UN Task Force - Using the Physics Toolbox in the Humvees.

I was very surprised because the UN Task Force is quite a recent release, after iClone 7 was released if I'm not mistaken.

When the Physics Toolbox was released for iClone 5 I was really interested in it but then I never had the chance to get it until apparently it was made more or less obsolete with the next iClone versions, but we never get back something similar even with iClone 7. So seeing that Reallusion is still releasing iClone content using the Physics Toolbox make me think it may not be that obsolete after all and I'm now tempted to get it.

But I would like to hear from those who actually own and use this Physics Toolbox, including with iClone 7.

What do you think ?

ps: plz do not get into PhysX is better than Bullet or vice-versa because I know very well Bullet from my work with Houdini. I'm rather interested in what can be and can't be done in iClone 7 compared to iClone 5 (perhaps some features that does not work anymore or something?). Can you replicate with the current iClone 7 physics implementation what was/is possible with this iClone 5 Physics Toolbox (which I don't think we can, apparently, hence my interest).

By argus1000 - 7 Years Ago

I am not aware of anything I can't do with Physics toolbox in iclone 7 which I could do in iclone 5. I know that, for a while, there was a problem implementing the physics engine in iClone 6, but this has been resolved a while ago. I like to power my vehicles with Physics toolbox, and it works well in iclone 7.

By GOETZIWOOD STUDIOS - 7 Years Ago

Sounds good then. Thanks a lot.

By GOETZIWOOD STUDIOS - 7 Years Ago

Investigating a bit further here is the situation:
As the Physics Toolbox use Bullet, iClone7 can replay or simulate Physics Toolbox setups (through the Lua viewport control panels) but we don't have access to the items Physics properties nor Constraints.
For this, the setup has to be created/edited in iClone5, then imported into iClone7.

By argus1000 - 7 Years Ago

Thanks for investigating further.

It's true. But, using Bullet in iClone 7, I was always able to create my vehicles without using the UI physics settings or constraints. I never built anything overly complicated either in iClone 7. I am curious what the support team has to say about this disappearance, so that we have to resort to use iClone 5.

By urbanlamb - 7 Years Ago

meh nevermind your talking about constraints i was talking about toolbox kit thingy..
but for people looking for the button here .. is the button in settings..

https://forum.reallusion.com/uploads/images/93c81466-07b8-46ef-95ba-1941.png

By GOETZIWOOD STUDIOS - 7 Years Ago

That's interesting, Reallusion is doing it again:
A New Collection Of Modern Vehicles For iClone

Using the Physics Toolbox again. So if you want to edit the physical properties of those vehicles you have to launch and use iClone 5. Is iClone 5 still available to new users ?

It's like if you had to keep CS6 Photoshop in order to edit a Layer in Photoshop CC 2018 ! Which software company would do anything like that ? ;)

I think it is now time to ask to Reallusion to bring back the Bullet Physics Property panels or tabs - including constraints - back into iClone 7, no ?

What do you think ?

By Kelleytoons - 7 Years Ago

"A New Collection Of Modern Vehicles Using Old Technology!"

What's next? Hybrid horses?

By GOETZIWOOD STUDIOS - 7 Years Ago

Kelleytoons (3/2/2018)

"A New Collection Of Modern Vehicles Using Old Technology!"
What's next? Hybrid horses?

Old technology ? No, Bullet is the state of the art physic simulator, used in production everywhere, including in Houdini. I've worked on 2 animated films recently and used it in Houdini to create complex chains links simulations that wouldn't work with anything else - including Bullet engine imcluded in other 3d softwares not exposing all the functionalities of Bullet (with the same approach used for the neck chains simulations of "Chappie" (2015) ).

The thing is that PhysX is part of the NVidia Gaming tools using GPU so it looks like more attractive.

I don't mind having both engines in iClone, I just want the properties and constraints panels/tabs for Bullet back into the iClone interface, so we can work with Bullet and *EDIT* iClone 7 content sold and made with it !

By Kelleytoons - 7 Years Ago

COMPLETELY missed my point, Guy.

What I was getting at was iClone was introducing things that could only be used by an old iClone (which is VERY old technology indeed).

By GOETZIWOOD STUDIOS - 7 Years Ago

Kelleytoons (3/2/2018)

COMPLETELY missed my point, Guy.
What I was getting at was iClone was introducing things that could only be used by an old iClone (which is VERY old technology indeed).

Ah, sorry, it sounded like "Obsolete Technology* to me :)
It *can* be used in iClone 7 but you can't edit anything : /

Selling new contents using Bullet means they now can't pretend it is obsolete and drop it from the next version right ? (hum..)
If so why not bring back the properties and constraints panels ? That would benefit everyone.

By james_muia - 7 Years Ago

How do you even get the physics toolbox to keyframe/save the motion? I am trying to get a humvee to drive around which I can do. Wheels spinning and everything, however it appears like none of the motion gets saved/keyframed. Granted, I haven't used Iclone in a while, but perhaps you guys know.

By GOETZIWOOD STUDIOS - 7 Years Ago

Normally it should create one Animation clip per dynamic object involved in the simulation. Don't you get those ?

By james_muia - 7 Years Ago

I don't think so...So I press 'play' on the toolbox, and then stop it when the vehicle is further along. When I drag the slider back and forth on the timeline, it seems to work, but if I press spacebar it breaks the animation.

Edit: I found a tutorial, so hopefully this will help. In case anyone is interested in it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyYWx1wmP3I

By GOETZIWOOD STUDIOS - 7 Years Ago

And when you follow this tutorial it still does not work on your side ?

By toystorylab - 7 Years Ago

I followed exactly that Tutorial and everything worked fine...
As seen in the first part of this video:

By Rogue Anime - 7 Years Ago

toystorylab (3/10/2018)

I followed exactly that Tutorial and everything worked fine...
As seen in the first part of this video:

FREAKIN AWESOME! I had some fun with the Humvee in the desert, but your clip is da-BOM! ~V~

By argus1000 - 7 Years Ago

grabiller (3/2/2018)

I think it is now time to ask to Reallusion to bring back the Bullet Physics Property panels or tabs - including constraints - back into iClone 7, no ?
What do you think ?

I think Reallusion, for all its merits, is leaving us flapping in the wind without our pants on. When I paid US159.00 for physics toolbox, I didn't expect it to work fully for version 5 only. I expected it to work with subsequent versions too. Us physics toolbox users are definitely being neglected here.

By LogicalWarrior - 7 Years Ago

Wait, so you're telling me...for us new users that just came aboard with this in the iC6/iC7 era, there are features....MUCH NEEDED OF COURSE, that were once apart of this software, no longer available??? This PhysX Toolbox thing? What could you actually use it for? Were you able to even create a script for entering and exiting vehicles? Could this be applied to any created vehicle/character?

I'm starting to feel cheated out here!! You spend all of this money to get what they sell as a powerhouse animator system, but then create versions that TAKE AWAY features? I am not getting it. I already had come across a post that talked about this iC5 being the best one yet, due to the different features that were possible, unlike the newer versions. Like it was mentioned that you WERE able to use MIRRORS once upon a time, but now they are saying that it's too hard to do such a thing when I asked about it???

I get that I'm not a programmer/developer, or anything like that, so I have no idea what is required to do such things. I just know if it could be done before and worked, why can't the same technology that was used before, be used again to duplicate it for the next gen developments? I'm just asking. Kelleytoons, GrannyJ, DAZ users/Developers (P7J5) have really been helping me out with understanding this whole new 3D world of creativity, so I guess I'm just trying to get a better understanding as a whole, in regards to why certain things that could be done at one time, are no longer able to be done.

Why am I posting this in here? Well, I purchased this Task Force Pack from Antareus (AWESOME DEVELOPER), and am also looking to purchase the newer vehicle pack that he just put out, which uses this very system to move it. I was actually coming to post a request from him, or anyone, that could do a Tactical Shotgun Pack, since out of all the weapon packs and motion combos that went with these packs, no one even thought about the TACTICAL SHOTGUNS that are also used. Maybe someone has to create a S.W.A.T. weapons/motions pack combo in order to get this. They have Pistols and Rifle Motion Packs, but no one has any Shotgun, or Demolition Packs. Although, with this in mind, I came across this post which explained how to properly use the vehicle(s) using this toolbox thing. I was doing more work than I should have been. And now I see why.

So I guess things happen for a reason. I came here for one situation, and I found a solution (so to speak) to another issue that I was having. With that being said, at least I can say THANK YOU for this fix, and now I can at least try to do this thing right with the Humvee. Yet, I still need to know what else can actually be done with this, in regards to character animations linkage to a car. I noticed in TOYSTORYLAB, he managed to get his character to get out of the car with door/character interaction. So, I'm just wondering was that something that could be created using this Toolbox, or did it just come with the car itself, like the Jeep from iC5 (there's that reference again....gosh!!) where the animation was embedded with the vehicle?

Thank you in advance for all your help!!

LW

P.S.: I have an upcoming cop movie that I'm working on, which is why this is such a huge deal for me. I have a clip of the first draft of it if anyone would like to see it. Maybe, I can get some critiquing/criticism/direction on how to do this correctly. Now, the slow motion feature I did was on purpose to add a little drama detail to it, but by all means, if anyone has better direction, do not hesitate to tell me. However, I do NOT want to post it as a Youtube video yet, as again, it's in SUPER EARLY development stage, and only a clip from the title sequence. I don't want to give it all away, but the part that I will show could be considered a spoiler alert. I don't mind it though, if it's going to help me become a better story teller in this new 3D world. Please be as BRUTALLY honest as possible!!. It's a full featured film that I finished back in 2006 in the Movies Game called "A Struggle For Justice", that was once posted on TMUnderground under my old Alias Panther559, which I'm doing a remake, since it was requested by my family and some friends to do so/reboot. Again, the iC7 version is ONLY a draft. How large can a file be in order to post? :D

By GOETZIWOOD STUDIOS - 7 Years Ago

@LogicalWarrior
The Physics Toolbox has nothing to do with embedded behaviors such as figures/vehicles interaction. It is a pretty fun tool that allows you to build quite complex even original physics systems/rigs using the Bullet physics engine in a way you can then "puppet" the system by injecting forces in realtime and record the resulting animation of course.

You can find detailed information in the product page: https://www.reallusion.com/contentstore/csproduct.aspx?contentid=AIC500DIENU050120120210001&MenuItem=iC_Plugin&Type=Plug-in

Afaik what they do not say is that while any setup built with this toolbox can be used/puppeteered with the most recent versions of iClone, including v7.2, to edit such system you need to use iClone v5, else you don't have access to the Bullet Physics properties panels anymore.
If you are new to iClone then you are f.... or perhaps you can ask Reallusion to give you access to iClone v5 download. What's amazing is that Reallusion is still selling NEW PRODUCTS using that Physics Toolbox.

Not sure what happened but someone at Reallusion - for some reason - decided that, well, Bullet was not good enough (while being the industry standard), or easy enough to maintain or whatever, so he decided to replace it with PhysX which is GPU accelerated for sure. Then what ? Oh.. we will simply "omit" the Bullet properties panels in the next versions and that's it (and of course no "PhysX Toolbox" to compensate the loss). This could be seen as spitting on the product buyers.

Don't get me wrong I love the iClone ecosystem but what happened with this product is still hard to swallow.

By james_muia - 7 Years Ago

grabiller (3/10/2018)

And when you follow this tutorial it still does not work on your side ?

It's working after following the tutorial. The key I was missing is to change the physics back from bullet physics to the default physics engine.

By LogicalWarrior - 7 Years Ago

grabiller (3/13/2018)

Thank you so much for your reply and explanation. So, apparently, it just seems like RL is just getting more and more LAZY with what they are producing, since they know that as far as animating software is concerned, they are somewhat at the top of the list as far as "ease of use" is concerned, over Poser, or DAZ's AniMate/AniBlocks for animating. I believe if there was another program out that was just as easy to use, and developed an even better system of features, (i.e. MIRRORS) they wouldn't be so comfortable with the "better take what we give you and be happy with it..." theory of production.

I'm not trying to start anything, but as you stated, for us new users, we don't have these kind of work-a-rounds, which lead to feeling like we are being shorted out with out experiences, or as you so rightfully/delicately put it...SCREWED (only using a stronger descriptive wording...LOL)!

As you stated, Grabiller, if they are going to continue to use this system for new product, then they should at least update the software so that we can manipulate anything using this older technology, or find a way to merge it somehow. Otherwise, if we being new to the whole iClone system, found out about the details of what was versus what is, I'm sure iClone would not even have been as successful with the sales that they have now with iC7, knowing that these drawbacks were there. They would be asking for a copy of the older program. AS I have always said, even as a gamer, visuals and effects are AWESOME, but if it has to sacrifice features, ease of use, fun, etc., then I'd take the features, ease of use, fun factors any day over graphics and visuals. I've actually seen quite a few iC5 movies on Youtube, one being my favorite (Lost in the Tomb, by Rene Jacob a.k.a. Direx1974 on Youtube).

One other thing, and I'm just going to put it out there, I really am just having a problem with this iClone company all around. Well this is the reason...I'm feeling as if I should never invest in iClone anymore because they're not trying to fix the mirror issues, also they're rip offs because everything is based on plugins. Now, granted the fact they had a special running for the curve editor tool to be free during the pre-order for the pipeline purchasers was good and all, but to me that should've came with iClone 7 anyway...not as a plugin that had to be paid for in addition. For what they were charging, it should have been more to it, and that's all I'm really saying at this time. PBR (here again, VISUALS) is fine and dandy, but what good is that, if you can't do anything with it? I'm sure no one would want to have to keep reverting to work-a-rounds, especially if there were features, once upon a time, available to this franchise (i.e. MIRRORS and BULLET manipulation system, etc.) that should have just stayed, all for VISUAL compensation. Okay, you added the Morph System as well, granted. Still, it doesn't fix the fact that the things which are being used now (Bullet system) for newer product can't be manipulated because it was discontinued 2 generations ago, oh and um.....MIRRORS!!

I'm very specific with my work, and I don't play games when it comes to productivity and quality. I'm not the best film maker, but with what I have, I try to do the best I can given that I have the right tools to do so. Knowing that there were essential features available 2 version ago omitted just for visual enhancements, make it hard for me to be happy with my investment. Again, I mentioned that I used the Movies Game software, which is like super outdated, for my movie making prior to this one, and with the highly limited features in that program, I still managed to come away with some good quality work, even with the lack of graphic detailing. To me, the story is what matters, and if it's told right, the visual quality can be forgiven easily. It has happened in many cases in film making. Everyone doesn't have advanced visual technology, so you have to find another way to capture the eye of the audience. Delivery of the story is the best selling point to any kind of production, on all levels. Anytime when one starts feeling like they had a better time with an ancient program over something that should be well past it's level of functionality, that's when things get a little complicated. That's where I am. In my movie, Superhero (very early stage development...) the guy looks in the mirror in the bathroom scene to see what he has become as the major reveal scene, and the camera. Can't do that now using this software because there are no mirrors, and I'm DEFINITELY NOT writing that scene out, because it's a crucial part for the change of the movie's plot leading to the climax. So, I'll just see what happens. Hopefully, they will see how many people are complaining about this same thing and maybe decide to bring it back. :d

By GOETZIWOOD STUDIOS - 7 Years Ago

It is scientifically known that for old peoples - or so called "seniors" (50+ I believe) - resolving crossed words maintains mental activity and delays senility. I don't know why but I've chosen to use iClone instead, lots of challenges here and issues to solve, it is like a therapy to me. And if I really can't solve something then I get the heavy artillery - Houdini - and solve it in there. You can actually create a mirror in iClone v7.2 but I'll let you search a little, there is at least two ways ;)

I've stopped to try to understand the "Big Picture" Reallusion may have that leads them to make certain choices. In fact I think they simply don't have one and just follow the market, the industry and business opportunities. So for a iClone user that basically means praying that those circumstances cross the user needs. It happens sometimes on little features or details, sometimes on big features, but never as a all. You are always pleased and disappointed at the same time at each release. And this will last as long as you are strong enough to handle it, psychologically and financially ;)

By LogicalWarrior - 7 Years Ago

grabiller (3/14/2018)

Very well spoken! So, what's this Houdini? And I did actually see some places where they explained workarounds. It's just really not an excuse as to why we would have to rely on workarounds, but hey, I went ahead and did the research on it. So, I agree with you on that. It's just time consuming adding to production time, that shouldn't be the case, that's all I'm saying. Then again, if everything was easy, exactly how you wanted it, and smooth flowing, it wouldn't be life, right? :D LOL

By 3d guy1 - 7 Years Ago

houdini is a high VFX software most studios use. But has very steep learning curve.

By LogicalWarrior - 7 Years Ago

wd70 (3/14/2018)

houdini is a high VFX software most studios use. But has very steep learning curve.

Is it anything like 3DSMax, or Maya, kind of software?

By GOETZIWOOD STUDIOS - 7 Years Ago

LogicalWarrior (3/15/2018)

wd70 (3/14/2018)

houdini is a high VFX software most studios use. But has very steep learning curve.

Is it anything like 3DSMax, or Maya, kind of software?

Yes and No. It is a general 3d DCC tools but with a procedural approach. It is more powerful than any other 3d application on the market but certainly not the most user or artist friendly albeit they did huge progresses on that side lately.
You can buy the Indie version (~$300), which makes it the cheapest all around, generic, most powerful 3d DCC tool ever (the cheapest one being Blender because it's free but it is not as powerful as Houdini).
But if you are lazy, impatient, over 40, you don't have a "I love to solve issues and puzzles" mind then forget about it ;) (just kidding about the age btw).
I have started to use it around 2003 and I still have a lot to learn and figure out ^^ But this is my secret weapon nonetheless (especially at work obviously, doing VFX).
I wish iClone could import Alembic files so I could send elements from iClone to Houdini then send back simulations to iClone, but.. It can be done at some point through morph animation but this applies only if the topology does not change.
For the particles I wonder if PopcornFX, through its editor is able to import external particles simulation. I'll have to investigate that, when I'll have PopcornFX..

By LogicalWarrior - 7 Years Ago

grabiller (3/15/2018)

LogicalWarrior (3/15/2018)

wd70 (3/14/2018)

houdini is a high VFX software most studios use. But has very steep learning curve.

Is it anything like 3DSMax, or Maya, kind of software?

Well, I do have ParticleFX, although, I haven't tried that theory out, and is a good idea to do so. I have/use Adobe Suite for my Production software (Premiere/AfterEffects), with a little help from DAZ and Maya for other means necessary (converting MD7 clothing creations into iClone CC). And I have actually started using Blender back in the day with The Sims game, and the Movies Game before I got introduced to Maya 2012. So, I'm a little familiar with the workflow of it, but I've been a Maya fan ever since. :D

Oh by the way, I am above 40 as well, so you could very well be spot on about everything you said about us (well, except for the lazy part...LOL)! :d I think that is just a thing that happens as you get older. You become a little less tolerant of things, as you feel at this stage you don't have as much time to put into things, as you had when you were in the 20s, and could waste time, if you wanted to so to speak with little to no consequences! :D

By GOETZIWOOD STUDIOS - 7 Years Ago

LogicalWarrior (3/15/2018)

Well, I do have ParticleFX, although, I haven't tried that theory out, and is a good idea to do so../..

Do not hesitate to share your findings if something interesting comes up in this area. I'm very curious about it.

LogicalWarrior (3/15/2018)

../.. Oh by the way, I am above 40 as well, so you could very well be spot on about everything you said about us (well, except for the lazy part...LOL)! :d I think that is just a thing that happens as you get older. You become a little less tolerant of things, as you feel at this stage you don't have as much time to put into things, as you had when you were in the 20s, and could waste time, if you wanted to so to speak with little to no consequences! :D

I'm 50 and I have to admit if I were to discover Houdini only now I would clearly be a bit discouraged to learn it from scratch ;)

That said, these few last years Houdini came out of the dark and has been adopted by the gaming industry as well (mostly thanks to the Houdini Engine), so more and more peoples are using it and understand it is not a VFX tool but just a "General" (in its true meaning) tool that include VFX :), and more and more nice tutorials and courses have been made, either free or paid. So I believe it may be a little bit easier to learn it nowadays than back in the days where Houdini was reserved to some alchemists carefully hidden in the basement of a few VFX companies ;).

By Pixtim - 7 Years Ago

I admit that I am quite surprised by reading this discussion ... Am I the only one to find the results of the Physic Toolbox are not good? Maybe it's a cutting-edge technology, I do not know, but if it's one, then the version we have here is completely restrained!

Indeed, there is a new pack of vehicles that is very well done, but the demo of the vehicle that rolls on the dunes is like any other. Physical engine reactions are bad!
The set is rigid and hopping. There is no inertia in the movements, the contact on the ground is incoherent, etc ... in short .. for me, it does not work.

Maybe I'm wrong but I have never seen a vehicle video made with Iclone that is interesting (for physical reactions). If you have a good example, I will be very interested. I bought this engine, I had some tests but I never took the time to really learn because between my tests and the video I saw, I really afraid of wasting my time. ..

By GOETZIWOOD STUDIOS - 7 Years Ago

@Pixtim
I had the chance to use the Bullet engine through Houdini for certain shots of some animated movies and I can't tell you it helped me solve tricky issues that some well known other solvers could not handle.
So I believe blaming Bullet is not appropriate here, I think the setups made out of Bullet could be better and for that, of course we need to have access to the properties and constraints panels, only available in iClone v5, in order to edit those. And yes, there may be some bullet parameters not exposed to the users.
Then of course there is the know how in setting any physics engine. It is like anything else, something you can't learn by being impatient or pressing button randomly. Physics simulation is not the easiest VFX domain to get it right.

By Pixtim - 7 Years Ago

grabiller (3/16/2018)

I do not speak of the engine itself because I do not know the name of the engines used in this or that software.
Moreover in my message, I say that if this engine is so powerful and that it is the base of the tools present in Iclone, then it is restrained in one way or another ...
I speak in terms of result compared to what I see and what I produce.

I use the dynamic engines of Cinema 4D and Unity a lot. I know what I can do, I have a good experience on it.

Frankly, have you seen a vehicle animation made with Iclone and Physic ToolBox that is really believable? Really if you have a reference, I will be very happy to be convinced! :)

Of course having access to the settings is paramount. Especially for the physical dynamics.
When I say that cars jump on terrain, it may be as simple as the ground does not have a mesh tight enough to generate good collision detection ... but I'm really surprised no one has produced a credible animation if the tools allow it ...

By argus1000 - 7 Years Ago

Pixtim (3/16/2018)

I admit that I am quite surprised by reading this discussion ... Am I the only one to find the results of the Physic Toolbox are not good? Maybe it's a cutting-edge technology, I do not know, but if it's one, then the version we have here is completely restrained!Indeed, there is a new pack of vehicles that is very well done, but the demo of the vehicle that rolls on the dunes is like any other. Physical engine reactions are bad!
The set is rigid and hopping. There is no inertia in the movements, the contact on the ground is incoherent, etc ... in short .. for me, it does not work.
Maybe I'm wrong but I have never seen a vehicle video made with Iclone that is interesting (for physical reactions). If you have a good example, I will be very interested. I bought this engine, I had some tests but I never took the time to really learn because between my tests and the video I saw, I really afraid of wasting my time. ..

What Antareus shows us in his video about his Bullet Physics vehicles movements satisfies me. I don't find there is no inertia in the movements. I don't find that the contact on the ground is incoherent. Sorry. You may be one of the few who finds the bullet engine and how it is applied by Physics toolbox...horrible and inacceptable. I don't. You're probably thinking right now: it doesn't take much to satisfy this guy, but you would be wrong. It takes a LOT to satisfy me. De gustibus non disputandum est.

By Postfrosch - 7 Years Ago

I tested the Physicbox IC 5 with IClone 7- it works out. You just have to switch from PhysXEngie to "BulletEngine" to work with the physics box (there are also all the necessary switches and controls available) and after creating go back to "PhysXEngine" to use the result in IClone 7.
I also think that the vehicles are not that bad (mine are eg no extra physical vehicles - I only used them with Hexagon for the Physikbox (wheels etc.).) I probably do not have the necessary knowledge to decide what is good and bad - but for me the result would be enough for a scene as shown in the test.
The "jumping" of the vehicle while driving can be avoided by the way, if you do not set the speed too high.
Greetings from Germany
Postfrosch

By Pixtim - 7 Years Ago

Argus1000: we all have different needs and depending on the project, a result can be satisfactory or not.I have no reason to judge that you are satisfied with little.

Postfrosch: The general reaction is correct as you show in your video but we do not see the work of the suspension.
For the contact on the ground and the work of the suspension, here is a link to a simulation that I find interesting.The terrain is rugged but each tire remains in contact with the limit of the travel of the suspension.There are no hops.

I'm not sure we can get the same result with Iclone ...

But you are right gentlemen, I can not criticize this engine without doing extensive testing.:)
As soon as I have a little time, I'll dive in to see if I can get what I want ...

By Postfrosch - 7 Years Ago

Hello Pixtim,
Based on the video that you show I understand what you mean. Looks really good.
However, I believe that the shown has more to do with the construction of the vehicle than with the physics (although that probably also plays a role).
I can not say if this is the case with Iclone (I do not think so) - but that's why the physics box is not broken. In order to create something in the style you prefer and want, you have to use C4d or a similarly high-priced product.
For (m) one (e) claims me enough the physics box of RL. I also do not do too much with vehicles and therefore raise no objection to be able to suddenly create super projects (or to want) just because it is IClone 7 with its umpteenth plugin.
Greets from Germany
Postfrosch

By argus1000 - 7 Years Ago

I took an Antareus vehicle powered by physics toolbox. I didn't go into iClone 5. I just applied the automatic settings. Will somebody please tell me what is so "unbelievable" about it so that I can educate myself?

By Pixtim - 7 Years Ago

Argus1000 :Quite simply in the sequence that you show us, there are no suspensions to the vehicle ...
The wheels should be in permanent contact with the ground, especially at this slow speed. And the body of the vehicle should have a movement "smoothed" by the suspension. If you were in this vehicle as a passenger, you would feel like you are in a washing machine! :)

Look again at the video I posted just before. Look at the movement of the wheels in relation to the ground and the body of the vehicle ...

Currently, I do not know if the physical engine and the interface we have can make it so accurate.

It seemed to me to have seen a video with a vehicle that had suspensions but I can not find it ...
Anyway, I guess if it were simple and efficient, all the vehicles we found for Iclone would have this system ...
___________

excuse me Postfrosch, I did not see your message ..

I agree with you, normally the physics engine should handle that.
But I have the impression that the complexity of implementation poses a problem. Or maybe the engine generates too much error when adding different physical nested reactions .. I do not know for the moment ...

By GOETZIWOOD STUDIOS - 7 Years Ago

Pixtim (3/19/2018)

../..But I have the impression that the complexity of implementation poses a problem. Or maybe the engine generates too much error when adding different physical nested reactions .. I do not know for the moment ...

Well, if you do not know, then why did you even start criticize the engine or the system so violently ? You started a few messages above with:

Pixtim (3/16/2018)

I admit that I am quite surprised by reading this discussion ... Am I the only one to find the results of the Physic Toolbox are not good? ../.. Physical engine reactions are bad!../..

The reaction aren't bad, there are no suspension, so the system react accordingly, that's all.

There are still peoples who have the impression the earth is flat.

By argus1000 - 7 Years Ago

@pixtim

You're comparing a luxury vehicle (your example) with a military vehicle (my example). Military vehicles are not known to have the quality suspension of luxury vehicles, far from it. I will go into iclone 5 settings and see if I can put a little more suspension to my military vehicle. I'm not sure if the wheels have to be in permanent contact with the ground at all.

By Postfrosch - 7 Years Ago

I will go into iclone 5 settings and see if I can put a little more suspension to my military vehicle.

Hi Argus,
that does not pay. In Iclone 5 you also have no more Einstellasmöglichkeiten what the suspension is concerned.
The new vehicle that you use is based on the same physics box foundation (4 wheels) that I also used for my 4 year old vehicle in the clip above. It is supposed to simulate a Jeep.
I have created the clip shown in IC 7 and it is enough for me that the Physikoolbox in IC 7 works without me having to change to IC 5.The vehicle behaves no different than in IC 5
greetings from Germany
Postfrosch

By Pixtim - 7 Years Ago

grabbing:
I'm sorry if I seemed aggressive, I do not speak English very well.
I also explained my impression because despite watching many vehicle videos made with Iclone, I have not seen that I find really credible. But I will be sincerely happy to be wrong. I work more and more with Iclone, and the more I can do on one software, the better!
I also said that it was not necessarily the physics engine that was a problem but could be the implementation in Iclone or the complexity of use to get a good result. This is actually the information I would like to have before I start spending time learning a new system.

"The reaction is not bad, there is no suspension, so the system is reacting, that's all."

.

But why not put a suspension if it works? Admit it's strange ...

There are still peoples who have the impression the earth is flat.

hmmm ... is this humor or irony ... unfortunately my ability with English does not allow me to know it :(

argus1000
I can not agree with you. That the seats are less comfortable, ok ...
But the suspension has a direct impact on the vehicle's capabilities. An all-terrain vehicle has a suspension travel much greater than a vehicle for bitumen.
The wheels must absolutely stay in contact with the ground because if this is not the case, it causes a sharp decline in the motor and control of the vehicle ...
An all terrain vehicle of the army is certainly not for comfort .. but it is made for performance ... its wheels must be glued to the ground

By Pixtim - 7 Years Ago

PS :
I just found the 4W4 with suspension that I had seemed to have seen.
It was not a video, it's just in the bonus projects of the Physic Toolbox! :) _ ( window template-> project )
I remember that I had tested it quickly, but since I did not have access to settings .. I stopped.

So it is possible, here is a capture pre-made settings.
The result is not bad but without accessible settings .. hard to see if we can push further.
The hierarchy of elements seems to be difficult to implement anyway. And it seems to me that the wheels do not always respect their point of attachment (I'm not talking about the crossbar but the point of physical approach that is invisible).
But in any case, it will suffice in many cases even if the suspension is very hard ! :D

By CtrlZ - 7 Years Ago

@Pxtum & @Grabiller considering you are both French I am sure you would communicate better in your native tongue:D
@Grabller (in my opinion) Is fantastic at conversing in English:cool:
@Pixtum I consider you a friend but English is not a second language for you:satisfied:

Back on topic I bought into iCLONE at the end of 6 and then 7 through promotion (Physics Toolbox was one of the items I purchased to qualify) so 5 is not an option for me:angry: also there was no warning about incompatibility in iCLONE 7 or I would have looked elsewhere to fulfill the promotion!

I just want it to work the way it was presented to me;)

Gary

By Pixtim - 7 Years Ago

: D !!!!! Gary, you are someone wonderful! I agree with you, my English is pitiful. I regret very much to miss all the qualities of the conversations. I hope I can soon take the time to learn to speak correctly (I take this opportunity to apologize to all those whose eyes cry when they read my message ...).

I also bought Iclone in version 6. And I also find it unthinkable to have to install a version 5 today .... wait and see, we've had some nice surprises in recent months!

By 《/^\》 - 7 Years Ago

argus1000 (3/19/2018)

Even though it is a Military Vehicle, suspension is what makes it realistic as you can see in the video, plenty of suspension.

By argus1000 - 7 Years Ago

《/^\》 (3/20/2018)

[
Even though it is a Military Vehicle, suspension is what makes it realistic as you can see in the video, plenty of suspension.

Thanks for the suspension lesson, guys. I wasn't aware a jeep suspension could be so complex. But I still don't believe a jeep suspension should move as much as Pixtim's luxury vehicle sample. I like more roughness and sturdiness in a jeep.

I played with the 4WD included in iClone, the one with a suspension. But I'm not sure if I like it as much. Too much wheel movement make it seem less realistic, IMO. Of course, I can adjust it with the iClone 5 settings.

By richard666 - 7 Years Ago

Agree totally. we have had awful problems with the physics props.