I think JAV and KT are both correct... people WILL watch a good story regardless - but - the same people may not watch aforementioned story the moment they see the duration is 14 mins, or if nothing amazing happens in the first 30 seconds.  Hollywood has this same problem... which is why the "Trailer" or "Preview" has become essential and will "make or break" a film's success a drawing an audience.  So, after months of building an animation maybe the key is to "give 'em a tasty snack" in the form of a 30 sec trailer.  There are "too many" videos vying for our attention on YouTube and Vimeo - and let's face it, we all think our time is valuable so we don't want to waste it by "taking a chance" or "waiting to see if it get's interesting" etc.

I also have to agree about the amount of time I'll expect to spend when watching a video on youtube, or even here on the forum.

I have two major problems I encounter in amateur videos, and I'm talking about videos which contain a cohesive story and not a clip. The first is the apparent 
inability of  some video authors to make their scenes appear as three dimensional. By that I mean, that many videos look like they were shot in the
1920's with everything being flat to the camera and not showing any of the perspective we see everyday in real life. This type of video usually is
accompanied by a lack of proper lighting (and shadowing) to enhance the feel of a three dimensional world. (Obviously I'm not talking about 2D
animation here.) If the world is flat, I lose interest quickly. 

The other thing that bugs me is a lack of different settings. So often I see an entire story carried out in one location. Sure you might view the set
from different angles but it's the same set over and over for the entire length of the production. Moving your story around keeps the audience interested
for a longer time. If your character is in his living room and is describing a critical event to another character, then build a set of the event location and show the
event happening. Don't have your character tell us about it, that's a buzz kill if ever there was one. And don't cheapen up on your set. A cheap set will destroy
the immersion as fast as cheesy dialog. Our audience is fickle and, as stated before by others, not inclined to watch more than 15 minutes of an animated story.
A great story might drag them through 20 minutes of boring sets, but good sets spark interest and changing them out when appropriate keeps the pace moving
and enhances the viewers appreciation and understanding of the story being told. 


http://www.youtube.com/user/peterblood50?feature=mhee

I call BS but see Dennis' thread for fuller explanation (I'm too tired to go back and forth).

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Alienware Aurora R16, Win 11, i9-149000KF, 3.20GHz CPU, 64GB RAM, RTX 4090 (24GB), Samsung 870 Pro 8TB, Gen3 MVNe M-2 SSD, 4TBx2, 39" Alienware Widescreen Monitor
Mike "ex-genius" Kelley

Kelley: :)

Please explain.

:cool: pete



http://www.youtube.com/user/peterblood50?feature=mhee

I'll be starting a little lecture series tomorrow. No livestreaming, but actually more of a group setting.

The first topic will be covering aspect ratios. Feel free to send me a message if you're interested. 

iClone Certified Director and makes miserable Westerns.

No offense here but I believe you completely misunderstood the application.

Causality does not enforce the use of any kind of structure, but does enforce you to respect your own decisions/rules and - yes - the causalities you created, hence the software name (the software itself does not decide of the causalities in your place). And this is why it is a fantastic tool imho. You can structure your story anyway you want, there is no receipt in there but if you decide, for instance, that one of your characters becomes angry after a certain event, then it will help you avoiding the mistake to insert actions where the character seems happy after this event. So yes, it will force the writer into a "then because of that" - a character injured after a car accident surely must not appear healthy anytime soon after the accident (or recovery period) if you choose to respect that logic (but you can still show him in a flashback if you want to, or break that rule if you decide your character has superheros speed health recovery capability) - but it is not the software who choose that for you.

Respecting causalities is kind of a basis in any story telling. I certainly wouldn't read or like any story that does not respect that.

I have to admit the software is not cheap though, but if you are serious in story telling and script writing, it worth every penny. The Layered Arc by itself is really great, it helps create and maintain consistency to whatever you want (character evolution, city evolution, a specific event over time across multiple sequences or scenes, etc..). I can't wait to see their future addons (Cloud and Production), combined with iClone Python (granted this will really happen) this could solve a lot of production automation issues and help having a solid workflow and pipelines.

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guy rabiller | GOETZIWOOD STUDIOS
"N.O.E." (Nations Of Earth) Sci-Fi TV Show, Showrunner.

I got often asked by friends "why don't you tell a story using iClone (or a game for a story as game machinima).

My answer was always the same: To tell a visual story that is interesting for me I would need voice actors and that means I depend on others. Of course it is possible to use just subtitles or tell a story without any spoken dialogues but while I dislike a video story that needs text to make (more) sense, I find it quite hard to tell a complete logical story without any dialogues in few minutes (I saw some great short stories that were told via iClone without any dialogues and it's fascinating to see that, but overall I'd say these stories are rare).

So for me if I want to tell a story I stick to written stories, which allows me to tell the story I want without the help of others (like voice actors). If I want a combination of different aspects like music/motions/visuals/effects I use iClone. Creating music/dance videos via iClone is most interesting for me and the reason why I originally bought it. Another advantage for me is that a music video has a time limit around 3-5 minutes so I am able to finish it without waiting x months or years what I had to if I created a storyline animation.

What is the problem to work with voice actors? If you want to tell a story, it is essential to have some good actors. It is not so difficult to find people, who can do it.
If you have a good story, don't let this thing turn away from that story. Just do it!

First - As TheDirector said, please don't let the reliance on voice actors stop you from creating your vision.  There have several good posts (even in the last few days) about finding voice actors, including free ones.

Second - For stories without dialogue, check out all the Pixar Shorts.  Most have no dialogue, and are totally awesome.  Perhaps you'll get some inspiration there.

Good luck.  :)

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iClone 7... Character Creator... Substance Designer/Painter... Blender... Audacity...
Desktop (homebuilt) - Windows 10, Ryzen 9 3900x CPU, GTX 1080 GPU (8GB), 32GB RAM, Asus X570 Pro motherboard, 2TB SSD, terabytes of disk space, dual  monitors.
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To add to this: 3 to 5 minutes is an acceptable length for an animation and enough to tell a story.

An inspiring book in that regard is by Bill Plympton: "Make Toons That Sell Without Selling Out". He prefers the short being short, and one of his other comments is that by telling the story without dialog, you will more easily reach an international audience. 

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