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TonyDPrime
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TonyDPrime
Posted 8 Years Ago
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illusionLAB (12/19/2017) Thanks TonyDP, I appreciate the effort but it's clear that the FBX export is broken so the only workaround for guaranteed results is to not use iClone until they fix it. Exporting individual animated props is not practical for complicated sets, and the relationship to the camera is still affected by scaling props in the scene. The workflow I was attempting required rendering the scene in iClone and then making an FBX export of the camera and 'set' which needs to overlay with the iClone render exactly. Having the camera and animated geo in Fusion 9 gives me access to the Z depth, World Space, Motion Vectors etc. For me it's a quick and more flexible way to add depth of field, motion blur, 3D atmosphere, particles etc. without long render times. I've been using that workflow with iClone for a while... it's only since the latest update it's all gone to pot.I hear ya. I have my own scenes I like to export so seeing this post has given me a head start on some issues I may have encountered later. By no means EVER does a workaround = problem solved. Just FeedBack Tracker is too slow, but everybody knows that. That is why the knowledge coming from these forums is so useful. It is FAST!
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urbanlamb
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urbanlamb
Posted 8 Years Ago
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animagic (12/19/2017)
If I then import back into 3DXchange I see the same, as when I re-import back in iClone. It comes back as a merged prop, which makes me wonder if it is exported merged, which could cause problems in itself.I haven't looked at the curve editor yet but the merging of stuff would change the behaviour most definately because of the fact that a root has been chosen etc. Is the curve editor dumping all the information into a single timeline? if so then this might be the cause of how its trying to solve this problem. (having not had a chance to play with it yet i am guessing but in knowing how iclone does the rest of things I am wondering if its dumping all the info into one giant timeline) Meaning that its one object one skeleton with one root and so everything is moving in relation to the root. Maybe the bones can be unparented from each other then and made into their own skeleton for each object and then it might work. If they are all linked to one giant bone make each object have its own skeleton and leave the bone big bone in (but unlinked) and experiment to see how to parent stuff to it or maybe you can remove the bone I dont know only some rooting around would let me figure it out . I dont know if its merging them because they are all joined together or its merging a scene. If they are joined together in iclone well unjoin em and see if it behaved differently as well because if its seeing a main object as its parent in iclone well its gonna see it outside of it too. The other issue might be you can figure out what is the root bone and change the euler on the entire skeleton and see if that changes the behaviour since the x.y,z is not the same in all platforms. I dont know if this is a "bug or feature" though only playing with it will decide..and I am not in a position to play with it right now..:/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes. You can steer yourself in any direction you choose. You're on your own, and you know what you know. And you are the guy who'll decide where to go." Dr. Seuss
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illusionLAB
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illusionLAB
Posted 8 Years Ago
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Group: Forum Members
Last Active: 3 Years Ago
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Thanks TonyDP, I appreciate the effort but it's clear that the FBX export is broken so the only workaround for guaranteed results is to not use iClone until they fix it. Exporting individual animated props is not practical for complicated sets, and the relationship to the camera is still affected by scaling props in the scene. The workflow I was attempting required rendering the scene in iClone and then making an FBX export of the camera and 'set' which needs to overlay with the iClone render exactly. Having the camera and animated geo in Fusion 9 gives me access to the Z depth, World Space, Motion Vectors etc. For me it's a quick and more flexible way to add depth of field, motion blur, 3D atmosphere, particles etc. without long render times. I've been using that workflow with iClone for a while... it's only since the latest update it's all gone to pot.
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TonyDPrime
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TonyDPrime
Posted 8 Years Ago
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I next tried each prop individually as a sub prop of the floor plane into C4D, and it worked in each separate case. This showed it may be the combination of moving props and sub-props which gets things screwy. (What I dd in iClone was I unattached the not-to-be-exported props, and found each time the single attached prop exported separately would import into C4D with movement perfectly.)
So, instead of trying to combine all in an export, I imported one FBX in C4D, then Merged (as opposed to Opened) the other 2 separate FBX exports, in C4D. And Voila! The scene in C4D now had all 3 props working, animating and located properly, matching that of iClone.
So - Workaround may be to export each animated prop individually as an FBX and then merge all the FBXs into one, in C4D.
(BTW - I am not using Blender at all, just C4D here.)
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TonyDPrime
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TonyDPrime
Posted 8 Years Ago
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Group: Forum Members
Last Active: Last Year
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Speaking of mayhem, I tried this- I had a moving sphere, box, and cylinder, over a floor plane. Instead of attaching props directly to a floor plane, I attached each prop to a respective same prop, like a dummy, and then attached those to the floor plane. No resizing. Look at the FBX exported to both Max and C4D... Additional props, armatures all over the place... In the case of 3DS Max, I can actually delete the resulting extra props I didn't want, as the moving props actually match that of iClone. Whereas in the case of C4D, some of the props are misplaced from the start, and others don't move properly. You do not need any understanding of FBX....just eyes. How do you get 6+ primitives from a 6 primitive scene... Might be the way iClone communicates prop attachment, or the way the program interprets it, but either way, Mayhem. iC7  3DS Max  C4D
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TonyDPrime
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TonyDPrime
Posted 8 Years Ago
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Group: Forum Members
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Yes, my note in the FBT was to describe the inconsistency of a same iClone scene with unresized animated props going to 3DS Max vs C4D. The armatures for the 3 props had differing results (Max works, C4D doesn't). And, resizing the prop didn't even have to take place for it to be off in the case of C4D. The problem is there even without resizing.
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illusionLAB
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illusionLAB
Posted 8 Years Ago
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Group: Forum Members
Last Active: 3 Years Ago
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The three cubes are "attached" but not merged... my experience is that it's the only way to export a 'set' from iClone and maintain each object's relative position. The entire process seems flawed to me... having everything rooted at 0,0,0 and then a series of armatures to offset the pivots, scale and transform objects is three times the work (and potential for errors, gimbal lock etc.) There may be some "game" logic involved... foreign territory to me, but at least a potential reason for such a complicated rig. Trying to edit the exported FBX animation is far more complicated too - also far more work than standard exports from other 3D animation programs.
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animagic
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animagic
Posted 8 Years Ago
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@4u2ges: I don't have any of the external programs. but I took your project and exported from iClone to FBX and then opened it into the Autodesk FBX viewer. What I see is that the blue cube is elevated to the correct height and fully rotates once as it should, but the red and green cubes are elevated twice the distance and rotate two times...:unsure: If I then import back into 3DXchange I see the same, as when I re-import back in iClone. It comes back as a merged prop, which makes me wonder if it is exported merged, which could cause problems in itself.
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paulg625
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paulg625
Posted 8 Years Ago
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Group: Forum Members
Last Active: 3 Years Ago
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Decided to see what would happen if I exported a character from within Iclone and it came into LightWave with about 40 extra bones it calls floor bones each grouping is attached to an extremely each hand and foot has 10 extra bones. Now I have trouble exporting from exchange but this is a whole new weirdness. Problem also exists in FBX viewer, crazy part is the motion actually works and animates properly despite the extra bones
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illusionLAB
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illusionLAB
Posted 8 Years Ago
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Group: Forum Members
Last Active: 3 Years Ago
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Thanks TonyDP! I'm not quite sure the comment you added is correct as the 'crucial factor' is the serious madness brought on by animating scaled props - the problems have nothing specifically to do with C4D, Max or any of the other CG programs I've tested. I have uploaded an "control test" example for anyone interested in seeing how the FBX export results from an iC7.1 are nothing like expected. No voodoo going on, not even a camera move... just three cubes and a floor with synced animation (not copied, but individually keyframed to avoid copying the 'same fault' to each cube). Basically, the green cube was scaled to 500% and then animated - the red cube was scaled 500%, animated and then "reset transform" to commit the scaling to 100% - the blue cube was scaled to 500% and reset to 100%, then scaled to 200% and reset to 100% before finally reducing to 50%. The floor was scaled to 300% but not 'reset'... this causes the scene to appear a third of the size in the exported FBX camera. The exported camera is correct, 50mm lens 36mm gate. my "scientific control test" iClone project can be downloaded from here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/dhgvejnfqizjaxy/fbx_exp_anim_test.iProject?dl=0
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