LOL -- you tell 'em, Tony.

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Alienware Aurora R16, Win 11, i9-149000KF, 3.20GHz CPU, 64GB RAM, RTX 4090 (24GB), Samsung 870 Pro 8TB, Gen3 MVNe M-2 SSD, 4TBx2, 39" Alienware Widescreen Monitor
Mike "ex-genius" Kelley

Freerange is right - this is the cheapest software solution you can find of this caliber.  I agree with him this is very important because it shows how in touch RL is with its user base as well as putting out a high quality product.
Kelleytoons and I in pre-release threads were putting forth what we felt of pricing as it related to considering the hobbyist user base.  
We both bought the plugin Day 1. 

In principal, I can't tell anyone they are wrong for not wanting to pay an amount as part of an exchange for something.   But what I will say is that there are going to be MANY MANY RL users buying this plugin, where the price is.  
Not only that, there are going to be MANY MANY new iClone users as a result of them being attracted to the pricing-to-quality ratio they will believe they can get.  For a Hobbyist this may not be a big deal, because it is a hobby.  But maybe for an indie filmmaker it is of more consequence, because there is the element of competition?   How many indie film makers are now going to have access to this great opportunity to have amazing facial mocap. 
I too have recently done more with just the face key and puppet tools alone, you can get great results.  But this plugin is SICK....Suh-Suh-Suh-Suh-Suh-SSSSIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIICK!!!!!

Anyway, Rampart - you want this plugin.  
BUY BUY BUY BUY BUY!

PS - Buh-Buh-Buh-Buh-Buh-BUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!

Thanks for the insights, FR.

I'm perfectly happy with where RL seems to be going.  7 was a HUGE step forward, and adding the FW stuff makes it a platform to compete with just about any animation package out there. RL clearly is trying to make this the best animation package bar none, and doing it at a cost that should shame the folks at Autodesk.

I think Python scripting and better particles (both of which we know are coming) will complete iClone and it will then be hard to argue with their position for almost anyone outside of a major studio (who use their own in-house software anyway).  I'm just glad I lived long enough to see this (using Max for decades I was so frustrated with character animation it was killing me).

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Alienware Aurora R16, Win 11, i9-149000KF, 3.20GHz CPU, 64GB RAM, RTX 4090 (24GB), Samsung 870 Pro 8TB, Gen3 MVNe M-2 SSD, 4TBx2, 39" Alienware Widescreen Monitor
Mike "ex-genius" Kelley

Had dinner with the folks at RL at SIGGRAPH, they are very committed to the software and growing their business and more and more R&D. The examples of software that was bought kind of invalidates your worry as the purchase gave more value and greater development to the software and was offered back to the users at a much lower price, in the case of Blackmagic you now spend ten of thousands less on software that is more capable, even the free versions are better.

If Autodesk or Apple or Google buys RL then I would be worried, they all love to ingest IP and kill it in its current form to get access to pieces of the tech for other products. Faceshift for Apple is playing a huge part of Health and the iPhoneX release. Softimage for Autodesk is playing a part in Bifrost development, etc. 

I am sure if a company comes along and throws money at RL they would sell, they would be crazy not to. But as of now they are hard at work making their products better and better. iClone 7 represents a major shift for them in my own opinion as they are catering heavily to the indie market while still trying to keep current customers happy. I would say they bent over backwards and worked their tails off to try and strike a nice balance of tools to woo professionals and features to keep their main user base happy. Almost all the professional stuff is optional and in no way effects the cost of the core product. 

Competition in the realtime space is going to get fierce moving forward and RL has a solid plan to carve out a good chunk.

Free Range
My IMDB

It's good that the FaceWare plugin now has its own section...:P

For real content go here: https://forum.reallusion.com/iClone/Plugins/Facial-Mocap-Plugin-Faceware.

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I to have been involved with Iclone for +5 years. I feel they are expanding and moving into interesting territory and as long as I can purchase from them or bring in what I need and the software provided the services I need I will continue to use it.  You think because they are giving us access to other software they are somehow failing us? I say why reinvent the wheel every time?   Yes you have to decide when you need to make your own wheel but sometimes it's better to focus on the car and purchase the tires from someone who has been in the business a long time allowing you to keep focus on the car itself, and just making sure the tire the other company provide do what we expect...
 

#1 an company who isn't at the top of the food chain I.e. Microsoft, Apple to name a few can be bought. this is business 101 I work for a company valued at over 10 billion and we were bought...

Do I suspect Iclone is for sale?  I don't think the developers are completely bored with it yet.
When the price is right it will be sold.
Why do I think it will be sold?  Because RL is not acquiring other applications or companies.
When prices start getting jacked up for the customer base it isn't out of line to think the company is taking advantage to enhance the company value and image.

I am not overly concerned.  There are considerable tools available to us now. 
As long as we have export and import tools I will do just fine.
The best part is I am not locked into Iclone any longer. I was when I first started with Iclone.
Most developers realize the value of more fluid usage of content provided by export and import.
I use 3dxchange, because my final destination has been into Iclone.  Saves me time to go this route.

IT might be worth it to explain a bit... As I recall, I started with IClone in 2011.  I have purchased every application and almost the entire conternt library during that time.  I have purchased all manner of marketplace items as well.
I have an investment in RL.  When you have investments you tend to want to preserve them.  If RL hadn't dragged their feet so long on the release of the CC I would never have taken the complicated route of using 3dxchange continuously to import content from other companies. 

IMO RL has become non-competitive with other companies more so than in the past.  I remember buying IClone items just to support RL.

You said, "Iclone isn't going anywhere".... Do you have inside information, do you have any idea how many companies have sold out?
Adobe recently bought Mixamo, BlackMagic Design bought several major animation applications, Magix bought Sony Vegas, etc.  When do people sell... when the price is right

Do I suspect Iclone is for sale?  I don't think the developers are completely bored with it yet.
When the price is right it will be sold.
Why do I think it will be sold?  Because RL is not acquiring other applications or companies.
When prices start getting jacked up for the customer base it isn't out of line to think the company is taking advantage to enhance the company value and image.

I am not overly concerned.  There are considerable tools available to us now. 
As long as we have export and import tools I will do just fine.
The best part is I am not locked into Iclone any longer. I was when I first started with Iclone.
Most developers realize the value of more fluid usage of content provided by export and import.
I use 3dxchange, because my final destination has been into Iclone.  Saves me time to go this route.

And actually you need to look up "original Simpson" animation the image you have here is after they were using cel-animating the first season was a lot different. Its hard to imagine it being the longest running show ever... but the original is even lower quality giving the Story is king. I agree if all is great makes it that much greater but... never mind that is a deep subject...

I want to also add this thought: I am of the opinion if you truly want to be an Indie company you will have to have this class of tools. because other wise you will never make deadlines producing any form of animations. Because the smaller the group the more refined the tools must be to achieve professional results in a timely manner..



First when you say indie: this is meaning a small independent company (someone making money not a hobbyist) so $700 bucks to cut down hours of work (save money)  So simple math 20$ hr = 35 hours work is 700 bucks. I think anyone who has done facial animation can say it wouldn't take long to save 35 hours using this device over hand animating.  So when you say Indie, are you really an Indie or a Hobbyist? And as a hobbyist hell you can't always get all the add-on's you want. other hobby's ( hunting simple shotgun 200 bucks  big bad ass rifle with special trigger and scope 3000 bucks,  Bikes simple Walmart 200 decked out specialist 3-4-5 thousand)  So as a Hobbyist you get what you can afford and as an "Indie" you get what saves you money when you can afford it...



I don't see them forcing anything. in face seems like they gave us a lot of cool new hand tools for facial animation. you make it sound like they left the tools the same and say well to use the extra new 30 facial motions you will have to have the Faceware plug in. this isn't the case they gave us access to all of it and then said you can also get this if you want it.



Remember this though 50 month forever 600 a year 1800 at 3 years. you mess with iclone for 3 years and decide I don't want to upgrade anymore you still get to use the software you own it. decide to quite using Adobe you loose access after 30 days gone...

The technology is there, now it's up to you, yes YOU! Don't wait for others to impress you, impress yourself. In other words, it's now up to the artists.

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