Hi,

This is, I believe, an underestimated subject and an issue to me, but as usual I think it is interesting to discuss this here before a Tracker Request is filled.

It is a 'best practice' kind of subject, not a technical issue per say, but I think CC2.0 should provide a V-Pose instead of a T-Pose as the default pose and the exported pose (fbx/obj), or at least propose the choice between the two kind of poses.

A V-Pose is like a T-Pose except the arms are oriented down by ~45°, the leg are oriented slightly apart (not parallel) and the fingers are not glued one to each other but also form a 'V' in-between each one (and each finger is not straight but slightly curved). There is another Pose called the 'Relaxed Pose', think about a character riding an invisible bike but we do not need to go that far in CC.

V-Pose, for modeling, is considered since a long time as a better practice than T-Pose (for modeling) by most professionals modelers I know. So why CC would not propose the better practice as a default ? Especially to iCloners developers who want to create custom bodies, clothes and accessories ? The V-Pose is far better for modeling, is more "natural" especially at shoulders areas and is a mandatory pose for Gloves modeling albeit a T-Pose can have finger oriented apart too but this is not the case with the CC2.0 default T-Pose, yet the default hand morphology is incorrect, fingers are parallel to each others and separated by almost the same amount of space which is in reality impossible, but that's another issue.

T-Pose should be considered as a 'technical' pose required by some tools and game engines doing auto-binding/skinning. V-Pose should be considered as an 'artistic' pose when it comes to modeling the actual character or accessories including clothes, and even to create custom morphs.

As CC2.0 allows us to export and re-import obj/fbx so we can create our own clothes, hairs, gloves, accessories, etc.. I suggest that CC2.0 offers at least the choice to export those obj/fbx with a V-Pose instead of the T-Pose, if not the V-Pose by default.

This would be artistically more convenient for modeling/sculpting purposes.


--
guy rabiller | GOETZIWOOD STUDIOS
"N.O.E." (Nations Of Earth) Sci-Fi TV Show, Showrunner.

I just realized/remembered this V-Pose I'm talking about actually exist - kind of - in iClone, in the Animation Template -> Motion -> 00_Pose folder and is called "0_Y-Pose".

This is what we need in CC2.0, except with the legs slightly apart (feet should be spaced by the length of one foot at least) and the fingers slightly curved, not so straight.

--
guy rabiller | GOETZIWOOD STUDIOS
"N.O.E." (Nations Of Earth) Sci-Fi TV Show, Showrunner.

I will second that request.
I find modelling clothing around the shoulders to be very frustrating i with a character set in T pose.

Well, not so much modelling the clothes. Its when i bring the character into iclone for animation, thats when it gets frustrating.
Trying to get loose sleeves, shoulder capes, etc to come down correctly with the arms from the T-pose to actual arm positions is very hard.....at least, it is for me. I have tried exporting the character as fbx with a non T pose so i could create the clothing with the character in a more natural pose but it gets exported in the T pose anyway.


I wish for this request

i7-3770 3.4GHz CPU 16 GB Ram   
GeForce GTX1080 TI 11GB
Windows 10 Pro 64bit

My desire is to create clothes morphs accessories etc etc that are completely useable in CC for iclone users (including myself) who have the desire to create video's with iclone and have little to no desire of becomming expert 3D modellers.
CC is a great tool that gives people the ability to design their own characters without having to become expert 3D modellers and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. There are other people who can 3D model but still use CC for the time saving abilities it provides.

As far as i am aware, if i go modifying the bones or the characters meshes like that then it will no longer be useable in CC.........Pooof, my desire is gone.

So, i will still second this request if and when the tracker request is raised

i7-3770 3.4GHz CPU 16 GB Ram   
GeForce GTX1080 TI 11GB
Windows 10 Pro 64bit

You can re-pose the skeleton any way you want and save it as the default (rest) pose. Just remember to set the default back to a T-pose before exporting your FBX for CC.

You can also distort the skeleton in all kinds of ways. Just don't re-name or change bone order.

@sw00000p
I believe you don't get it either, it is not a mesh deformation fix problem, it is a convenience for artistic modeling and sculpting. Scripting bones is a technical step that has nothing to do with the request, that's why I said T-Pose is a technical pose and V-Pose an artistic pose.

--
guy rabiller | GOETZIWOOD STUDIOS
"N.O.E." (Nations Of Earth) Sci-Fi TV Show, Showrunner.

How ? If you edit the pose from the Edit -> Edit Pose (N)  and click "Set as Default", CC will still export a T-Pose.

--
guy rabiller | GOETZIWOOD STUDIOS
"N.O.E." (Nations Of Earth) Sci-Fi TV Show, Showrunner.

Thanks Rampa. I will look into that. Dont know why i didnt think of it from that angle. Posing it it Blender Mind stuck on a path i guess.

i7-3770 3.4GHz CPU 16 GB Ram   
GeForce GTX1080 TI 11GB
Windows 10 Pro 64bit

Sorry. I wasn't very clear.
I know Delerna is a Blender user, so I meant to say change the rest pose in your external editor. In Blender it's a couple of steps, but easy enough to do. 

lol swOOOOOp:
I have to tell you I enjoy your post mostly because they make me laugh and I have to admit I have gleamed some good information from a very small sample!
You are absolutely right most iClone users have no 3D skills! Most just want to make movies. Some actually make money with it!
I'm a Butcher by trade (an old dog trying to learn new tricks) I want to make movies and leaning a few 3D skills (with Blender) can help me obtain some of the assets I need to make that happen.

You are VERY intelligent but I can walk a steer out of your back yard and have it on your dinner table by supper time. I'm not going to brow beat you for buying your steak at a meat market or a fine restaurant lol no I need you because that is how I make my living!

I guess what I'm saying is any information I can obtain from you will be greatly appreciated and if you need any information on how to process a deer I'm your man just ask!

CtrlZ aka Gary   

Home built liquid cooled AMD Ryzen 7 1800X cpu (8 core 16 thread) 4.0GHz,  rtx 3090, ASUS Crosshair VI Hero motherboard, 64 GB RAM, 500 GB SSD (Samsung 850 EVO) 6 TB HD's 4K monitor.