@urbanlamb
You are right. There is not much to discuss when one report an issue exposing that the software is using 1+1=3 instead of 1+1=2, and prove it.
Except to expose additional or related issues like rampa did with the appearance editor and substance misusing the AO result, an issue I've missed but which is definitively to include in the all AO issue chapter.
And that was the purpose of posting the issue to the forum first before I post it to the tracker, to gather other remarks, observations, to better envision the direct and indirect consequences of the issue, etc..

So no, the point was not to discuss if I am right or not, because I am right, and I brought enough elements to demonstrate it.

This may sound a bit pedantic, I'm sorry about that, but CGI is my job since several decades and I know what I am talking about. If I report such issue you can be pretty sure I am right.
If, on your side, you are unsure and don't have the technical knowledge to support your "beliefs", then you better should trust peoples like me and accept the truth once and for all, you will waste less time and energy

You joined the forum 6 years ago, I encourage you to re-read all the posts and endless discussions regarding having a Linear Workflow in iClone. Now there is because it was simply needed. No more arguing, guessing, beliefs. I wasted a lot of my time and energy trying to convince peoples that a Linear Workflow was needed.

This time I won't do the same mistake by endlessly discussing about the proper use of AO. Everything has been exposed here in this thread, I've tried to explain the best I could so non-technical peoples would understand the issue. But that's it.

If, on your side, you want to be stubborn enough, for some reason, to still think I'm wrong then please, keep on wasting your time and energy until the issue is hopefully fixed by Reallusion. Then no more arguing, guessing, beliefs. The issue will simply be fixed, whether you believed it was right or wrong.
Cheers man.

--
guy rabiller | GOETZIWOOD STUDIOS
"N.O.E." (Nations Of Earth) Sci-Fi TV Show, Showrunner.

That post is out of order its not referring to you.  I just get tired of fixing my replies.    

I did learn though that threads are not posted cause of someone really trying to find out what others think.  To me it seems clear the decision was made before the discussion started so that is fine.    There seems little to no reason to post on forums or reply to threads if the answer is not what the person wants to hear.   Its clear to me this there is no disccussions to be had here and I apologize for trying to discuss anything LOL. 
/shrug 

(crawls back into my hole to wait for iclone 7 which I think is gonna be awesome I have a video all ready to render with the new system as a comparison) 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes. You can steer yourself in any direction you choose. You're on your own, and you know what you know. And you are the guy who'll decide where to go."
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     Dr. Seuss

Not that it seems to matter at this point, but the PBR characters provided with CC 2 do come with AO maps that are not just black, so they must be there for a reason. Also, I don't know who "you guys" are, but I for one never made this a complicated issue. I just wanted to understand what Guy was hinting at, and now I do. So I appreciate the education and am happy to move forward. 

---

Thanks for the suggestions.

#1 -  I merely meant to include a couple examples rather than an exhaustive list.  But I edited the Issue and added IBL.  :)

#2 & #3 - I think it would be best if you wrote those up in a "Comment" in FeeBack Tracker.  Or you could provide me with the right words here and I can edit the original submission.  :unsure:

(I'm so glad we can edit our entries now.  Sure wish we could edit comments, and attach pictures to comments.  Oh well, one step at a time.)

#Other - I added a reference, with URL, to the document you suggested.  :)

---

iClone 7... Character Creator... Substance Designer/Painter... Blender... Audacity...
Desktop (homebuilt) - Windows 10, Ryzen 9 3900x CPU, GTX 1080 GPU (8GB), 32GB RAM, Asus X570 Pro motherboard, 2TB SSD, terabytes of disk space, dual  monitors.
Laptop - Windows 10, MSI GS63VR STEALTH-252, 16GB RAM, GTX 1060 (6GB), 256GB SSD and 1TB HDD

oh well here is another one from the paint port which I think is probably more what I would see if i was in the CC2 (well the cc2 has a light i see a shadow so one light at 100%)

this one has no light just the ambient lighting


and here is one with one light (100%) and the ambient light (this is the render set up too)




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes. You can steer yourself in any direction you choose. You're on your own, and you know what you know. And you are the guy who'll decide where to go."
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     Dr. Seuss

justaviking (1/6/2017)

---

Sometimes it would be so much easier if we were all in the same room, physically, drawing on a whiteboard and looking at the same monitor.

Perhaps this picture will help...

Okay thanks.
Well lets see what they say then I guess cause it all seems right to me but shrug even if it is broken i think its all awesome so :)
When i see the dress from justaviking it seems its working fine.  
/shrug

lol 



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes. You can steer yourself in any direction you choose. You're on your own, and you know what you know. And you are the guy who'll decide where to go."
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     Dr. Seuss

Sometimes it would be so much easier if we were all in the same room, physically, drawing on a whiteboard and looking at the same monitor.

Perhaps this picture will help...

---

iClone 7... Character Creator... Substance Designer/Painter... Blender... Audacity...
Desktop (homebuilt) - Windows 10, Ryzen 9 3900x CPU, GTX 1080 GPU (8GB), 32GB RAM, Asus X570 Pro motherboard, 2TB SSD, terabytes of disk space, dual  monitors.
Laptop - Windows 10, MSI GS63VR STEALTH-252, 16GB RAM, GTX 1060 (6GB), 256GB SSD and 1TB HDD

@justaviking
No worries, that's perfectly ok. What matters ultimately is that the issue get fixed : )

--
guy rabiller | GOETZIWOOD STUDIOS
"N.O.E." (Nations Of Earth) Sci-Fi TV Show, Showrunner.

@urbanlamb
I have 3dCoat myself and the "default" render setup is 1 "Environment Light" (IBL) set at 100.0. Reduce the value to 0 and your render will be black (not the realtime viewport though, unless you check "Realtime Render", top left option).

--
guy rabiller | GOETZIWOOD STUDIOS
"N.O.E." (Nations Of Earth) Sci-Fi TV Show, Showrunner.

Its possible I guess I am not seeing it though. /shrug 
 I just thought it would be a good comparison even if this is a final render because 3dcoat is listed as one of the ones that it replicates.    

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes. You can steer yourself in any direction you choose. You're on your own, and you know what you know. And you are the guy who'll decide where to go."
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     Dr. Seuss