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AutoDidact
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AutoDidact
Posted 2 Years Ago
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Group: Forum Members
Last Active: 2 Months Ago
Posts: 2.1K,
Visits: 13.6K
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However, I'm puzzled about the lack of proper IK. Is it a strategy to encourage users to purchase poses? Ultimately, the absence of a good IK system makes it tough for advanced users.Ultimately, the absence of a good IK system makes it tough for advanced users. Daz studio is a loss leader product to foment volume sales of content for their Genesis figures to people who render still images. they probably do not see any value in a modern human IK system for animation because their current user demographic actually cares nothing about animation. And experienced animators ,from other programs, are not going to buy into the Daz eco system (even with decent IK) only to be stuck with Iray ,(the dumb ,brute force path tracer that does not even support modern RTX cards) or an outdated & crippled version of 3Delight that even the Daz content venders no longer support, Regarding your initial question it is not likely you can do anything on the Iclone side of the equation as Daz studio is really designed to correctly load Daz store content from your Daz libraries so you will probably have to fix the misalignment in Daz studio after external import.
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ahab_d
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ahab_d
Posted 2 Years Ago
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Group: Forum Members
Last Active: Last Year
Posts: 5,
Visits: 143
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AutoDidact (10/19/2023)
Daz has made it very clear that they care nothing about internal character animation by how they have refused to implement a basic foot/floor IK contact system. Most Daz studio users who render animation depend sole on external motion systems that generate BVH etc compatible with the latest Daz figures yet every “new “ genesis” version blithely destroys all compatibility with previous external animation systems such a Iclone & Mixamo. All of the really high quality canned animation in the daz store are recycled mixamo motions created with Autodesk motion builder or Iclone. I sell a modified Genesis 9 retarget rig over at renderhub that is compatible with Mixamo so people can use those free mixamo motions in Daz Studio without the mark up from the recycled packs sold in the Daz store
But in general their primary user base is, (and always will be), portrait & Pin up STILL artists and even that base is now being eroded by AI art generators such as Midjourney and leonardo.ai Indeed, Daz Studio has its strengths and weaknesses. Still, for me, Daz's lack of a robust IK system is a more significant drawback than its limited animation support. As far as I see it, Daz demands a lot of computing power, making it understandably why they might not prioritize animation support. Not everyone can utilize this feature due to the high resource requirements. Many struggle just to pull out one render. Personally, even with a strong computer, I experienced challenges batch rendering back in the day. So yeah, the whole animation support thing is understandable. However, I'm puzzled about the lack of proper IK. Is it a strategy to encourage users to purchase poses? Ultimately, the absence of a good IK system makes it tough for advanced users. When I began with Daz and Poser years ago, I searched for shortcuts for easier character posing, especially hand poses. The common advice was to practice. While I initially was disappointed by that answer, I've come to realize, after countless posing and animating sessions, that practice is indeed the only way. Yet, even with experience and mastering Daz's tools (knowing when to use each handle, key shortcuts, etc.), the IK issue keeps making the whole experience disappointing and challenging. P.S. I'm still seeking an answer to my initial question, but haven't found one yet.
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AutoDidact
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AutoDidact
Posted 2 Years Ago
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Group: Forum Members
Last Active: 2 Months Ago
Posts: 2.1K,
Visits: 13.6K
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Daz has made it very clear that they care nothing about internal character animation by how they have refused to implement a basic foot/floor IK contact system. Most Daz studio users who render animation depend sole on external motion systems that generate BVH etc compatible with the latest Daz figures yet every “new “ genesis” version blithely destroys all compatibility with previous external animation systems such a Iclone & Mixamo. All of the really high quality canned animation in the daz store are recycled mixamo motions created with Autodesk motion builder or Iclone. I sell a modified Genesis 9 retarget rig over at renderhub that is compatible with Mixamo so people can use those free mixamo motions in Daz Studio without the mark up from the recycled packs sold in the Daz store
But in general their primary user base is, (and always will be), portrait & Pin up STILL artists and even that base is now being eroded by AI art generators such as Midjourney and leonardo.ai
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ahab_d
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ahab_d
Posted 2 Years Ago
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Group: Forum Members
Last Active: Last Year
Posts: 5,
Visits: 143
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@4u2ges Thanks for the visual tip. I hoped that by analyzing the video '''frame by frame''' I'd pinpoint the step I'm overlooking, but it appears to be the same process I'm already using. The challenge persists when managing two characters that have some physical interaction. Let's say one character receives a kick in the face, and following that contact, spins to the ground. When I apply the same process to acquire both BVH animations and import them into Daz, the characters aren't placed in their exact intended positions. This defeats the purpose of using iClone to ensure smooth interactions between characters. I recognize that if I were to work in iClone with a character that has a rig different from Genesis – like CC, for instance – even converting the animation to BVH might yield different outcomes (which I consider a big flaw for most tutorials in YT about converting animations in iClone for Daz). However, since I maintained the same bone structure, I theorized it should work. Myabe I was wrong... @kungphu You've made a valid point, and I appreciate it. Nonetheless, my primary goal is to find a method to re-import the resulting iClone animation back into Daz, especially when handling multiple characters, while maintaining as smooth an animation as possible. As I've mentioned, it's mostly out of curiosity. Yet, I'm beginning to feel I've devoted more time to this little project than I had intended, especially since I just embarked on this just for the sake of exploration and testing.
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kungphu
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kungphu
Posted 2 Years Ago
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Group: Forum Members
Last Active: Last Month
Posts: 997,
Visits: 7.1K
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@ahab_d if the old Daz figures are genesis 1 or higher you can just convert them via Character Creator, animate in iclone and either render and use the Daz environments in unreal via the Daz to Unreal bridge or import the Daz environment into iclone. Much easier workflow. My previous go to for fast animation was to import Daz environments into iclone and convert all my dazzles via CC. You’d have to redo the lights and use an IBL but the results were great in my book. Now with Daz to Unreal the world really is our oyster! Plop your sets into unreal for your final renders.
My "NEWEST" Latest:) Movie Made With Amaaaazing iClone
—> High Noon”ish” in Narrow Valley<—
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4u2ges
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4u2ges
Posted 2 Years Ago
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Group: Forum Members
Last Active: 10 days ago
Posts: 5.3K,
Visits: 16.8K
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I'd rather prefer CC4 for that, but 3DX would do as well. Sample workflow which might give you ideas: (I have already set the limits off there)
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ahab_d
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ahab_d
Posted 2 Years Ago
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Group: Forum Members
Last Active: Last Year
Posts: 5,
Visits: 143
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AutoDidact (10/16/2023)
any particular reason you are using Daz studio instead of Blender or unity for your final renders? Hi. I don't have a specific reason. As I mentioned, it's just for the sake of it. Professionally, when it comes to animations, I mostly work with Unity these days. I'm also taking my initial steps with Unreal. For many years, I used Daz as a hobby. As a result, it's challenging to completely move on from it. Nowadays, I use it occasionally as a virtual lay figure studio to understand how keyframes for animations should appear in specific scenarios. It's like applying a pose from the library I've gather over the years to get an idea of where to begin an animation. Then I move to Blender to create the whole thing, and these days, I started to use iClone for it. I just wanted to learn how to do this for the sheer interest in it. I used to be an enthusiastic renderer in the past. However, I don't render anything these days. If I can figure this out, I might consider rendering a full animation just for the sake of it. Would be nice to see my old Daz custom characters animated in that way. Regardless, I haven't been successful so far. Additionally, I haven't had more than an hour to explore new solutions. This thread remains open, and if I ever find a solution, I'll share it in case it can help someone else.
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AutoDidact
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AutoDidact
Posted 2 Years Ago
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Group: Forum Members
Last Active: 2 Months Ago
Posts: 2.1K,
Visits: 13.6K
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Frankly I feel that by doing this extra -and tedious- step the whole point of using iClone and how conveninet it is for animating and exporting to other Softwares is lost. In Game Engines and Blender it's just drag drop and the animations end up in the exact position wehre they are supossed to be. I agree completely about Daz studio which is why it is not a viable software for final rendering of complex animations. Also BVH is a Baked FK format and may fail you on some animations that depend heavily on IK solving such as reach targets interactions. you mentioned Blender any particular reason you are using Daz studio instead of Blender or unity for your final renders?
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ahab_d
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ahab_d
Posted 2 Years Ago
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Group: Forum Members
Last Active: Last Year
Posts: 5,
Visits: 143
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Thank you all for you answers.
Indeed, I fear this entire situation originates from how rudimentary and poorly maintained Daz's approach to animations has been. I understand why it might not have been a priority for them to enhance the system, but nonetheless, I'm somewhat dissapointed by it. Nonetheless, I hope it's capable of handling this issue, and maybe it's just me overlooking a step.
@AutoDidact I get you, but the point is to avoid this extra step of manual work. Frankly I feel that by doing this extra -and tedious- step the whole point of using iClone and how conveninet it is for animating and exporting to other Softwares is lost. In Game Engines and Blender it's just drag drop and the animations end up in the exact position wehre they are supossed to be (in case anybody is reading this and wondering how to, make sure to avoid frame simplification/reduction when importing to softwares with that option like Unity, for example). Keep in mind that it's not just about moving a character to specific coordinates, but adjusting the position and rotation of two characters interacting with each other. Smoothing this can be a maddening process, especially when you've already achieved it in iClone and know that the whole process should be unnecessary.
@4u2ges Yes, I made sure to set the bone structure correctly. As I said, animations play correctly, they just don't have the accurate world positions. I take note of your suggestion, I may try to use default animations and compare results. Hopefully I get some insight while doing it.
@animagic Indeed your suggestion feels to me so out of the box that I really like it and hope it leads me to something. Will give it a try.
Thank you again for all the tips.
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AutoDidact
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AutoDidact
Posted 2 Years Ago
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Group: Forum Members
Last Active: 2 Months Ago
Posts: 2.1K,
Visits: 13.6K
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Hi, I know that the Daz studio tools are really primitive but you can easily globally adjust an animated figure’s position on the X,Y,or Z axis by selecting all of the frames for the hip, in the DS graph editor, and moving them while hold the control key.
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