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Character Creator Extended Licensing Confusion

Posted By media_566068 2 Years Ago
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media_566068
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Hi,

We currently use several assets that are under the extended license. We are building a game that will have a character selection system. This character selection system will let a user select a character based on their face. The user can then choose their outfit and hair style for this character. The head (face) is loaded in as a character with a hidden (removed on export by CC) mesh body with only the head faces showing. The hair is loaded in as a character with all faces except the hair mesh hidden (removed on export by CC). The body is loaded as a character with the head faces hidden (removed on export by CC). The bones of each rig are then childed to the respective bones of a meshless rig in the game engine to animate all three characters simultaneously. We also swap out the shaders to allow different outfit / skin colorations. Does this count as character creation / generation?

No mesh is being modified at runtime. We are merely animating three distinct characters at the same position and time. Also, under your licensing are we allowed to generate LODs for our character in blender / our game engine? We've had quality issues with the instaLOD tool in CC and get better results using third party tools for generating LODs.

Thank you.
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2 Years Ago by media_566068
yepkoo
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If I'm not mistaken, it's okay to have users select a ready-character.
But I know that it is forbidden to allow direct or indirect customization of characters and CC components. You may need to apply for a corporate license for this. However, if the outfits are not CC components (eg if you bought them from DAZ), I don't think there will be a problem with customizing these components.

I don't think it will be a problem if you produce the LODs yourself or use the character by customizing it in a different way.
LODs have been added to the program just for our convenience.
After all, the licenses allow you to transfer the characters you produce as fbx to the program you want.

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Peter (RL)
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As Yepkoo already explained you are not permitted to use any Reallusion content in an in-game character creator or generator with the Standard or Extended License. The use of an in-game character creator requires an Enterprise license which are issued on a case-by-case basis.

From your description it would appear what you propose would be classified as an in-game character creator, and so would not be permitted under the EULA without an Enterprise license.

                                                                

Peter
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www.reallusion.com


travisscottbussey
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yup this completely tanked my project. how many games do you know that don't have some kind of character customizing in them. I would ask for a refund if it wasn't after the time deadline. not happy at all would be putting it mildly!
media_566068
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I have a few more questions regarding this:

Question 1: Does this only apply to CC Cloth, CC Hair, etc?

If we switch all of the character clothing / hair to be clothing / hair from an external source (e.g. Turbosquid). Are we then allowed to do in-game character selection? Does using the human bodies created with character creator count as Reallusion content?

If I bring in a human from Daz3d or Human Generator v3 and clothing from Turbosquid / art station, am I allowed to use it in my in-game character selection system?

Question 2: Does a system that loads a complete character, but appears to let the user select parts count as in-game character generation?

If we generate a complete character for every permutation of head + hair + body and export them from character creator, but then have a selection system that selects and loads a complete character based on the end user of our game selecting the head + body + hair from a list does the count as in-game character generation? To be clear this would simply be loading a COMPLETE character exported from character creator, but it appear to the end user that they are selecting each part of the character. Is this permitted under your license?
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2 Years Ago by media_566068
yepkoo
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@Peter can answer more clearly on this.

According to my logic, as long as you don't customize the CC character itself (morph etc.), I don't think it would be a problem if you allow customization of components such as hair, clothes that you obtain from external stores.

However, since these outsourced products also have their own licenses, you need to be sure what their EULAs allow.

Finally, I would like to add that what I wrote is for informational purposes only.
It can be true or false.
You need the approval of the RL authorities on such matters.


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2 Years Ago by yepkoo
media_566068
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Thank you Yepkoo. I have a tendency to agree. Would be good to know what if Reallusion agrees as well.

Peter (RL) (10/18/2022)
As Yepkoo already explained you are not permitted to use any Reallusion content in an in-game character creator or generator with the Standard or Extended License. The use of an in-game character creator requires an Enterprise license which are issued on a case-by-case basis.

From your description it would appear what you propose would be classified as an in-game character creator, and so would not be permitted under the EULA without an Enterprise license.


Hi Peter,

I don't mean to bug you, but could we get an answer for my other two questions / topics? I just want to understand what is and isn't permitted under the EULA.

media_566068 (10/18/2022)
I have a few more questions regarding this:

Question 1: Does this only apply to CC Cloth, CC Hair, etc?

If we switch all of the character clothing / hair to be clothing / hair from an external source (e.g. Turbosquid). Are we then allowed to do in-game character selection? Does using the human bodies created with character creator count as Reallusion content?

If I bring in a human from Daz3d or Human Generator v3 and clothing from Turbosquid / art station, am I allowed to use it in my in-game character selection system?

Question 2: Does a system that loads a complete character, but appears to let the user select parts count as in-game character generation?

If we generate a complete character for every permutation of head + hair + body and export them from character creator, but then have a selection system that selects and loads a complete character based on the end user of our game selecting the head + body + hair from a list does the count as in-game character generation? To be clear this would simply be loading a COMPLETE character exported from character creator, but it appear to the end user that they are selecting each part of the character. Is this permitted under your license?

Edited
2 Years Ago by media_566068
Peter (RL)
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media_566068 (10/18/2022)
I have a few more questions regarding this:

Question 1: Does this only apply to CC Cloth, CC Hair, etc?

If we switch all of the character clothing / hair to be clothing / hair from an external source (e.g. Turbosquid). Are we then allowed to do in-game character selection? Does using the human bodies created with character creator count as Reallusion content?

If I bring in a human from Daz3d or Human Generator v3 and clothing from Turbosquid / art station, am I allowed to use it in my in-game character selection system?


The restriction on using an in-game character creation system applies to the use of any Reallusion content which includes ccAvatar, ccProject, ccSlider, ccHair, ccCloth, ccShoes and ccGloves. If you are not using any Reallusion content whatsoever (including the avatar itself) then our Content EULA restrictions would obviously not apply. 

Question 2: Does a system that loads a complete character, but appears to let the user select parts count as in-game character generation?

If we generate a complete character for every permutation of head + hair + body and export them from character creator, but then have a selection system that selects and loads a complete character based on the end user of our game selecting the head + body + hair from a list does the count as in-game character generation? To be clear this would simply be loading a COMPLETE character exported from character creator, but it appear to the end user that they are selecting each part of the character. Is this permitted under your license?

Unfortunately, this would still fall under an in-game character creator and would not be permitted without an Enterprise license.


                                                                

Peter
Forum Administrator

www.reallusion.com


Edited
2 Years Ago by Peter (RL)
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This post is the conclusion that we have drawn from this thread. Having read over the Content EULA several times we have not yet found an official definition of what in app or in game character generation is. Based on the content of the preceding posts it seems that Reallusion's unofficial definition of character generation only requires the appearance of character customization. Even selecting complete characters filtering for things such as face, skin color, etc. would be construed as character generation. The only acceptable solution without applying for an enterprise license is to select characters from a list without any categorization (categories may be mistaken for generation after all). I am basing this on:

Peter (RL) (10/19/2022)

Question 2: Does a system that loads a complete character, but appears to let the user select parts count as in-game character generation?

If we generate a complete character for every permutation of head + hair + body and export them from character creator, but then have a selection system that selects and loads a complete character based on the end user of our game selecting the head + body + hair from a list does the count as in-game character generation? To be clear this would simply be loading a COMPLETE character exported from character creator, but it appear to the end user that they are selecting each part of the character. Is this permitted under your license?

Unfortunately, this would still fall under an in-game character creator and would not be permitted without an Enterprise license.


A character selection system without categories with any reasonable number of variations exported as a complete character is not only technically impractical (excessive use of disk space), but also results in a poor end user experience (picking a character from a large list would be time consuming and tedious). Character customization is pretty much expected in a game anymore. It is a shame that there is not a license for it with a transparent price.

The fact that the enterprise license is a closed-door negotiation without any public price transparency raises concerns of wallet-feeling and inconsistent pricing. An enterprise license with standardized, transparent pricing (potentially based on yearly revenue or organization size) would make us more likely to seek and purchase an enterprise license. But this is not the case. 

Therefore, we will not use Reallusion content in our character selection system. Instead, we will be using Maya for our character selection system.


ContentDude
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I will suggest that you send a Enterprise License request to Reallusion. https://www.reallusion.com/license/content.html
I am sure that they are very happy to assist you and answering your question regarding the content license issues. They willl evaluate your usage and let you know whether you need an Enterprise License for your project. 



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