Peter
Forum Administrator

www.reallusion.com

As a customer, I'm a little confused by the new pricing model. I used to consider Reallusion content a viable alternative to DAZ, but the extended licenses now are NEVER on sale and MUCH, MUCH more expensive than they used to be.

So I see a special promotion to my email for the "Paladin and Darksider" pack for $130 (expensive, but something with many customization options), but extended use license now is $899 and no discount.

The same seems to hold on most content offered on sale. And unlike at DAZ, there is no option to purchase the extended use license after the fact without paying full price on top of the price of the iContent license (if you bought it).

Reallusion's own guideline is that the price should be no more than 1.5 times the iContent price point, however since only the iContent seems to get offered on sale now, effectively the price of the Extended use licenses are now 7 times more than the iContent price. That seems to hold across the content store.

The Extended use licenses are much more expensive than the Export licenses were, and they don't seem to go on sale. An outfit I paid $10 for on sale for the export license, now would cost $36 for the extended use license, which likely would not be on sale.

A content pack I paid $70 for the export license on sale, now costs $398 for the extended use license. Even on sale (which they don't seem to ever be when a content sale is listed), it would be coming out to the list price of the old export license. So prices for the extended use licenses seem to be double or more what they used to be, and don't seem to go on sale.

So the "Paladin and Darksider" bundle is - $130 on sale for iContent or -> $899 for Extended, and you can't upgrade. That's 7x more. The extended use license is over 3x what I recall that pack used to be offered for with the export license.
The other things I looked at from my order history were 5.6 and 6 times more (assuming a sale on the iContent and no sale on the Extended licenses).

Most content seems to have at least doubled in price.

I will continue to use the content I've purchased, but the new pricing model seems to price out Indies / Hobbyest game developers.

Yes, it does. At least for individual developers who make their own games and want to sell them. I think the prices could be justified if they would only be required by companies. And single developers could just use the standard license for their projects. 

Maybe sales will decline rapidly with the new pricing and Reallusion will have to make an adjustment. We'll have to wait and see. 

Up until a month ago, prices were expensive, but still within the realm of sanity (for indies / hobbyests).

The "new" license model (which is really just the same license model with new labels) tripled the price or more on most content.

These new prices are insane. They’re shooting themselves in the foot. I literally cannot use their products for games anymore. I don’t have that kind of money..

I’d almost prefer that they implement a subscription alternative of some sort. Or tiered licensing, depending on how many people are part of your team. Only one person? They should be covered under the standard license.

Please remember not all content purchased needs an Extended License, even when used in commercial games. Please refer to the chart below.





                                                                

Peter
Forum Administrator

www.reallusion.com

Peter, maybe there’s a communication breakdown. Because I know I’m not the only person struggling with this. Maybe you could just explain it in very simple terms.

Because originally, my understanding of the policy was that if we wanted to use CC-generated characters, with assets purchased from the store (like hair, clothing, etc) in our indie games (which we intended to sell) we would have to purchase an Export License, *and* send Reallulsion an email, letting them know we were using the assets… that we paid for. (For… some reason…) That was annoying and micromanage-y, but at least reasonably priced, more or less.

Now, my understanding of the new system, is that if I want to use CC4 and a bunch of Reallusion assets— clothing and hair, mostly— in a game I intend to sell for money — those assets each require an Extended License. And the extended license costs three times as much money as the standard license, on average.

When I say I can no longer use your products for game development, I don’t mean that I literally cannot use them. I mean that price point is financially prohibitive. Things like scenes and props are not particularly a concern. But $60 plus for a single hair asset, for a bedroom dev? The cost of an entire new AAA game?

Reallusion had the right idea when they (briefly) had everything covered under a single, fairly priced license just a few months ago. But now the decision makers want to gouge us for tons more money, and surprise! Want to use these products in a commercial project? Better be ready to pay a 300% markup!

I recognize that you’re just a community manager, you have nothing to do with these decisions. But I hope you pass along these concerns to people higher up on the chain.

I'm not actually mad at RL about it.
Because a new version comes out every 4-5 years and there is no subscription fee.
I am aware that over such a long period of time, a high income is required for program development and the existence of the company.

However, a limit can be set to cover only individual users. For example, if the sales exceed this limit, you have to pay the extended license fees or you have to pay 20-30 thousand dollars for one time, etc.

Or, let's contact us and give permission to use it with a standard license until you see your earnings.
Because if the game that is put up for sale cannot hold on to the market, individual employees cannot afford these costs.
If he is not a wealthy person, he will not want to take the risk by paying such a high price for these products.


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Hi...

I don't think there is a communication breakdown. I do understand the points you are making, and rest assured your feedback will be passed on for review.

When it comes to CC Components like clothing and hair then yes you will need to pay the Extended License price for the content if it is to be used in a commercial game.

My point was that not all content requires the Extended License so motions, accessories, props plus all the embedded content that comes with iClone 8 and CC4 does not incur extra costs. We also made the Extended License price for many of our popular packs the same price as the Standard License. These include Ultimate Morphs, Realistic Human Skin, Makeup & SFX etc.


                                                                

Peter
Forum Administrator

www.reallusion.com

I would like to ask for clarification. What does this mean for Commercial Characters use?

The Mocap bundle below is availabe for sale with Standard License only and so has restrictions on the "CC Components: use on unlimited commercial characters" usage. Then there is the mention of what an Extended License is which means if a product was bought with that, we can create unlimited number of different Characters across multiple projects and use that particular product. But there is still a limitation: It  only applies as long as these different Characters share the same CC Components (This might need further explanation and/or example).

In my very basic understanding, these means the 'Kid's Adventure' Mocap bundle (US$ 99 Sale Price) can only be used for ONE (1) / SINGLE CHARACTER only and would require a re-purchase for every additional different Commercial Character you want to use it with? If I am wrong because these Mocap bundle does not include any CC Components making it usable for more than one Character without the need for a purchase for each different character use, then why not just make it available with Extended License in the store by default?

Furthermore, another confusing part for me here is the inclusion of the sentence "CC Components: use on one specific commercial characters" together with "CC Components: use on unlimited commercial characters" for both the Extended and Enteprise Licenses (Both is checked. See table below.). That sounds contradicting. Here's the definition for One Specific Character: "For example, a hairstyle component can only be applied to one specific character and may not be shared across multiple characters. This specific character can be used in various projects, games, XR, and interactive services as well, as long as it is the same character."



In addition, the License Type of some bundled products can only be determined when you've bought it. For example, see Headshot Plugin Pack below. I expected it will have an Extended License like the rest in the included bundle. Due to this, I realize it it will take extra time to sort out all the products you've bought to see how you can use it. It looks like the safest would be to just stick buying products with same licensing. Then again, ask first what licensing type is available for bundled products. If you're just starting to learn and check out Reallusion software with a plan to someday make commercial products with them, the safest would be to get Extended License.