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Multi-Passes Rendering Test

Posted By GOETZIWOOD STUDIOS 16 Years Ago
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animagic
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kurzal, I'm with you on the subject of the importance of script development, but I think what Guy is trying to accomplish is a bit more than just "technique". There comes a time when you want to go beyond presenting your work on-line and when that happens you need another level of image quality and I think that is what Guy is trying to accomplish. The real-time aspect of iClone is useful in order to get a quick initial idea of what your move will look like, but I don't see a reason why there couldn't an additional render engine with higher quality. I like iClone to be as good as it can be.


https://forum.reallusion.com/uploads/images/436b0ffd-1242-44d6-a876-d631.jpg

peteradam6
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Could these multiple render settings eventually be added to iClone's "render video" panel options? So that we could all work as we do now, but when we're finished we'd just have iClone render multiple passes of a scene using automatic presets? The results would be a set of videos like we've seen in this thread.




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Paumanok West
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gizmo (5/16/2010)
Please continue with your work in this area because I love the notion of someone, or everyone being able to create machinima on a higher plane.


Yes, Guy: what he said! :)

I think many of us are thrilled to have animation professionals trying advanced techniques to push the envelope with iClone.

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Paumanok West
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zuijlen (5/17/2010)
The real-time aspect of iClone is useful in order to get a quick initial idea of what your move will look like, but I don't see a reason why there couldn't an additional render engine with higher quality.


Hmmm... let's imagine it's December 2011, and we get the news that Daz or Carrara is precisely that engine?

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Anim8torCathy (5/16/2010)
../.. Are you using levels of opacity or multiply or alpha channels when you blend each (pass) layer in your final composite? I'm trying to figure out how you do that../..


Hey Cathy,

Yes as it is shown in the gif animation, the combination of the passes is purely mathematical, when you see Albedo*Ambient*AmbientOcclusion it means that each pixel component value of one image is multiplied with each pixel component of the other. In photoshop it's like using 'product' as a layer mode. When you see AmbientLayer + Lighting, it is an addition, in photoshop it would be overlay. No alpha is involved here though. I do correct each layer prior blending though. You can play with the opacity level in the compositing software to balance the intensity of each layer, but I don't do that, I prefer to correct the layer first ( with curves and/or histograms ).

Hope this helps.

Cheers,
Guy.

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Hello,


kurzal (5/16/2010)
../.. iClone is designed for rendering movies in real time. In real time. Movies! And the movie is an idea, script, direction, etc. And sophisticated mastery of technology will not replace the lack of movie ideas or thoughts or, for example, composition rules for frame. It is a pity that in recent times the word "movie" becomes synonymous with the word "technique". The vacuum can be attractive as an indicator of excellent job of pumps, but it will always remain a vacuum ../.. Really, I'm not trying to offend you. If so - my apologies and once again my apologies for the lousy english ../..


No offense taken, not at all, and in fact I tend to be agree with you. However, I believe the problem of poor creativity is not the technic in itself, but the balance of involvement between technic and creativity.

That said, any Art has its own technic. A very talented painter wouldn't be able to express himself without knowing painting technics. Like you said, a movie is an idea, script, direction but it is also *images* and *sounds*. Those who tend to forgot this are just recording performances. It's like creating a play with actors on stage then just use a camera to 'record' the play, without consideration for the framing or the lighting.

Personaly, when I watch a movie, I like to be 'transported', to feel emotions - and not only from the actors -, and I can't if the resulting image is bad, flat, horrible. Perhaps that's just me, but the rendering is part of the creative process, but, and I agree, not only. Idealy, the same amount of involment should be put into the idea, the script, the direction, the animation, the sound, etc..

Well, for me and for now, with iClone, my strategy is : One step at a time ;)

When I'll be finished with my rendering experimentations up to a point I know I can have achive a sufficient technical quality for almost any situation, then I'll move on to the animation. Then I'll move on for the rest, as the rest is independent from iClone.


@zuijlen
@peteradam6
@Paumanok West

Idealy, what I'm doing here, I would love to be able to do it in real time ! And I also agree with kurzal on this one, iClone has been designed to be a realtime engine, so why not ?

That said, I guess there is nothing wrong to go to post-process to overcome the limitations of the engine.

But, nonetheless, all what I did by creating passes and using a compositing software is actualy doable in realtime, and it is up to the engine developers to raise the bar and give us the features we need to achieve that. The technology is known and available, there is nothing mysterious in all this.

Ultimately I guess it's a resource problem. iClone is not a $4k software, so is the RL intention to raise the bar up to a point it can compete with professional softwares while maintaining this price range ?

I don't know.

What I know, for sure, is that what you are presented with iClone is an approach of 3d animation that will be investigated by other developers ( and it is, currently, by some famous companies.. ), because this is an alternate way of creating 3d animation that is commercialy very interresting for producers and indies.

And as you can see, nowadays, there is a very thin line between a hobbyist toy and a professional tool.

It's just a question of mind switch in the head of the developers, and a question of including the right features, not the quantity of features.

That's what I meant, in another thread, when I was talking about 'Machinima taken seriously'.

Cheers,
Guy.

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guy rabiller | GOETZIWOOD STUDIOS
"N.O.E." (Nations Of Earth) Sci-Fi TV Show, Showrunner.

Dreamcube017
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Hm thanks Guy. This seems a bit more doable now that you've explained it... I don't think I can make AO maps... but I can do other things.

And yes... Most of this stuff can be done in real time... It goes back to a post I made about utilizing DirectX11 features. Ok maybe the price would raise up a bit... but as long as it's under or around 400 I could still afford it and if it had a few more things... maybe even a bit more.

Second Life now has a viewer that has post proccessing effects, SSAO, and simulated GI. (Kirsten viewer) however the frame rate is low... but I think that's because things are being streamed in realtime. iClone was made to be a realtime engine, so I hope that they can update some things with some more graphical enhancments.

To be honnest, they don't even have to move up to DirectX10 to do that. DirectX9 can still be used as there are a lot of things that can be done in it that iClone doesn't do yet. I know this because I'm on Window XP and have seen some very nice things rendered with DX9.

Also I agree, the storyline is important, but to really get the full experiance, the sound and visuals are equally important. If only the story is focused on and then everything else is sorta just tossed in as an after thought... sure it's ok... but I at least still feel that it's missing something.

I'll have to give this method a try though... minus the AO since I can't bake the maps. (unless I model things in a different program which I might not for this experiment. I may just use 3D blocks.

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Illustrator Cathy
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grabiller (5/17/2010)
Anim8torCathy (5/16/2010)
../.. Are you using levels of opacity or multiply or alpha channels when you blend each (pass) layer in your final composite? I'm trying to figure out how you do that../..


Hey Cathy,

Yes as it is shown in the gif animation, the combination of the passes is purely mathematical, when you see Albedo*Ambient*AmbientOcclusion it means that each pixel component value of one image is multiplied with each pixel component of the other. In photoshop it's like using 'product' as a layer mode. When you see AmbientLayer + Lighting, it is an addition, in photoshop it would be overlay. No alpha is involved here though. I do correct each layer prior blending though. You can play with the opacity level in the compositing software to balance the intensity of each layer, but I don't do that, I prefer to correct the layer first ( with curves and/or histograms ).

Hope this helps.

Cheers,
Guy.


Thank you so much Guy! I get it now! :w00t:

I want to reiterate what has been said here: that I believe it is vital to the growth of this software and our growth as filmmakers that folks like yourself push the boundaries of this software and real-time animation in general. I've been with iClone since version 1 when nobody took it seriously, but there was a handful of us who saw the 'promise' in this program and stuck with it over the years, exploring each new possibility as it evolved. I am convinced we are only at the 'tip of the iceberg' regarding what can be ultimately achieved.

Thanks Again!
Cathy :hehe:

Just click on the graphic to go there.



Paumanok West
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OR, in the meantime, if you don't have the talent and training Guy has in 3D production... you could lean on iClone as a artistic crutch for doing old-fashioned matte painting.

In this video, I show 4 camera angles of Walt's room under six radical lighting treatments:

1. pitch dark
2. dark with wallpaper FX
3. warmly lit with whale oil
4. bluewhite lightning
5. rosy dawn
6. green "omen" light.

Of course now I have the following restrictions:

1. Camera is locked down to only 4 set angles
2. Furniture will have to be manually cut out as alpha planes



Walt Whitman's bedroom--color keys from Mitch Gould on Vimeo.

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Hey West that's not a bad idea.

Hm I think for the textures though it shouldn't be TOO hard as long as you don't get them mixed up.

I'm think ing the hardest part would be not getting things mixed up in all the assets.

Actually my suggestion would probably be to make a folder and then make a project, animate everything and once all the animation and lighting (basic lighting I mean) is done, then you go and save the project as another project like (room-ambient, room-light room-depth) or something, then you can change things in each project with out fear of messing something up.

----------------------------------------------------
***BEST OF THE CORE**
:A music reel demonstrating the different types of music I produce for multimedia. Hope everyone enjoys.


Player not working? Use this link.

My other audio work.

Facebook page:

Creation begins at the core.



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