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HIGH HEELS SAGA

Posted By 4u2ges 5 Years Ago
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HIGH HEELS SAGA

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4u2ges
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I have already posted some problems with High Heels here: https://forum.reallusion.com/FindPost452154.aspx
But that fairly minor, compare to some issues I have discovered trying to fit High Heels made way back for CC1 base.

First, not only high heels but some other shoes do not fit well on CC3+ base
I was able to fix some of them inside CC3 and made them look good, but not high heels. So there we go:

Trying to fit shoes on CC3+ - all butchered (Screenshot 1)

So I figured I put the shoes on CC1 base, convert to CC3+ and I'll be all set. It worked fine for other shoes but not for high heels.
After conversion from CC1 to CC3+ (Screenshot 2).
Look good! I am a happy camper. But not so fast!
Saved shoes, loaded them on Base CC3+ and got this (Screenshot 3). So basically after conversion, shoes are no longer high heels for Base CC3+. But they fit fine if I load them back on any converted CC3+ character.
I then try to do the same thing converting to CC3+ from CC3 characters. Result was the same.

So there is no solution in CC for that. I had to separate shoes in 3DX, take em to Blender, fit, rig and weighted all over again on CC3+ base (Screenshot 4).

68% of original size (was 736x21) - Click to enlargehttps://forum.reallusion.com/uploads/images/27f52784-282e-43fe-9694-0857.jpg


NOTE1:
The routine for making High Heels inside CC3 is not applicable for a delicate, detailed high heels.
In no way I would deform the mesh trying to fit it on flat feet bottom and then deform it back with High Heels button.
I think it is totally backward routing and only good for messing up your perfectly modeled shoes.
As oppose, we should be able to rotate feet/toes bones to fit the shoes! Then final small tweaks of the shoes mesh.  And then *burn* the pose and transfer weights.  


NOTE2:
Mesh, which has sharp edges (made with double vertices) is no longer applicable in CC. It is imported un-smoothed (regardless tris or quads).
It was NOT the case before and it is sill works fine for stuff imported to iClone and 3DX. The Auto-Smooth Routine in CC is not perfect to say the least.
First, it is painfully slow and is not automated. You have to tweak the angles and wait again for a long time (on fairly hi-poly though). And then tweak again. Eventually it never looked good (at leaset not on High Heels I was working with)!
I had to remove doubles and use custom split normals in Blender, marking sharp edges to avoid smoothing in CC.

NOTE3: This new Bind-Pose is totally confusing. OK I get it, from now on we can only model, rig and weight in this new Bind-Pose inside 3-rd party apps. T-pose is no longer valid for that.
But where is that Bind-Pose pose in CC?? Character is imported back in T-pose again! No matter how small the difference between poses is, you can never see your outfit in CC, the same way you rigged and weighted it in 3-rd party app.
It comes back deformed (not in a bad way if you did a good job with weights), but still deformed. I mean you can try to lower arms and spread legs a bit, but you will never get that pose perfectly.
Plus, that terrible offset by Z. I was trying to cheat. I weighted shoes in Blender, but did not wanted to spend time tweaking it. Thinking I'll bring it to CC and apply weights there. Never happened.
Either because of the pose difference or the Z offset, shoes got badly deformed as soon as I applied Shoes weights. I also tried to apply the Default weights first and then Shoes weight. It looked a little better, but nowhere near acceptable level (because that pose difference I think...).


RL made a breakthrough with a lot of enhancements and new CC3+ base. Kudos for that to a dev. team!
Nonetheless, I hope all those listed issues would be addressed at some point in an upcoming patch/update.


Thank You!




4u2ges
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FT 7115 - High Heels (created prior) do not fit/conform on CC3+ Base. As well as suggestion to revisit High Heels Fit Button Routine in CC:
https://www.reallusion.com/FeedBackTracker/Issue/High-Heels-and-Some-Other-Shoes-Created-Prior-to-the-Release-of-CC-v3-331-do-Not-Conform-Well

FT 7114 - We need a new Bind Pose in CC and iClone side by side with T-pose:
https://www.reallusion.com/FeedBackTracker/Issue/We-need-Bind-Pose-in-CC-and-iClone




cynsegura
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Hi guys maybe you can help me. I place to a character from cc3, not the new ones. The old cc3 bases high heel but now I want to change them to flat shoes. And I cannot because my character is on high heel posstion. Bones has changed. Is it anyway to bring it back to t- pose. I tried t- pose. I also tried adjment bones. But I cannot get this. Is someone who can help me.

Thanks.
4u2ges
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RL said, they fixed it in the latest release. I have not tested though. Did you update to the latest release by any chance?
Otherwise, if character is still in the High Heels pose when you are taking her shoes off, it can be fixed outside of CC (in Blender for instance).

Tested, apparently it is not fixed. Old default female character in iClone still displays that problem. I'll try to look more into possible solution in the evening.




cynsegura
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Yes it is in high heel position when I take off the shoes. How do i fix this in blender? Can you please explain to me?? No I don't want to update because all is working for me well and i know new versions are having issues too.
Amper Sand
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LATER EDIT: now I've observed you said you don't want to update CC (and I cannot disagree with you) so you may ignore my post here.

@cynsegura
Maybe's worth to check the CC version in Help/About.
I had exactly the same problem (well, not me, but my old CC3 character I'm still using) in the first release of CC3+ (3.30?) but it seemed solved in latest 3.31
I've checked again now - taking off the high-heels properly adjust the character's feet on the floor. Replacing high-heels with flat shoes also is working OK.
Tried in both iClone 7.81 and CC 3.31, exchanging character between them or opening as project or as iAvatar - looks OK.

iClone 7.81.4501
CC 3.31.3301

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animagic
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I have had these problems with CC3 and earlier as well. I haven't verified if it's fixed for me in the latest version. 

What I've started doing is save a base version of my character without shoes and then add clothing to it and save as a new version.



4u2ges
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So here are cross requests:

@ampertox
Could you please download those characters (is not already) and try to take heels off the default base female (the one in shorts): https://forum.reallusion.com/FindPost453048.aspx
I did not have a chance to test anything else yet.

@cynsegura
You definitely need to upgrade. Latest release was mostly about fixing bugs in CC v3.3 and iClone v7.8
Upgrade and try to take heels off that character again. Let us know.

@animagic
Yes, from version to the other it was getting worse with cloth/shoes conformation. Latest one was the worst with shoes specifically. I mean I understand a different character topology, symmetry fix and so on.
And I honesty tried to do my best not to complain much and was trying to find a workaround by adding shoes to older base and then convert and so on. But it never worked. It was a real saga :ermm:
I have not done much testing with the latest update in regards to shoes and cloth, only when I saw a post by
cynsegura I quickly tried that older default female I had problem with taking heels and it did not work at all.
I'll try later on again to convert shoes on older base and see if that would work out, because really, there are few different problems here...





4u2ges
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Ok, so here is how to reinstate the pose in Blender. This would actually work for moving those CC3+ characters to the ground as well: https://forum.reallusion.com/FindPost457543.aspx



Note :
For CC3+ characters use an A pose on export out of CC. For all older bases use a T pose.

After character is imported back to CC the materials need to be reinstated as some maps would be lost.
The best, is to bring both characters -  older one with a problem and the new fixed one to iClone and use a bucket tool to reapply materials.




cynsegura
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Hi guys. I could resolve that. But now look at how my high heels look in this kind of characters I converted into accessories and that was better. but now I have to try to move separately to be able to put each one on the right feet. How do i do that?? Someone can help me..  I am not going to update.cc3. Because new version are full of
problems always. I am stil with cc3.2. I will do when i read most of the big problems are resolved.  I don't need skin gen either. And also looks super heavy.


68% of original size (was 736x21) - Click to enlargehttps://forum.reallusion.com/uploads/images/5963eb7c-a92a-4dc6-8f6b-10ec.png
68% of original size (was 736x21) - Click to enlargehttps://forum.reallusion.com/uploads/images/ccb0725e-4e8a-40ba-aa67-c1c9.png

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