Thank you all for replying - your information/ opinion is very helpful.

I should have said I am not new to 3d but I'm only a hobbyist looking for the holy grail in animation software
I started with Daz Studio 3 and have dabbled with Maya,C4d ,Lightwave, Modo and some others . Daz Studio has evolved into very capable animation tool [ but often requiring expensive add ons ] The interface has become complicated and I am loath to use it. What I do use is Daz's 'CarraraPro' which you may not know about because Daz no longer supports it and NEVER promotes it.
This is not a software sell but after looking at so many programs I keep coming back to Carrara which is amazingly capable for the asking price even though it has not been updated for over 5 years. So maybe take a look , dial up CarraraPro on youtube.
Carrara then is my kind of bench mark and I need Iclone to do things it cant or at least provide a more convenient way of doing it.

I was surprised therefore to learn that a graph editor and particles are extras  [ Curve Editor Plugin and Popcorn Plugin ] not cheap.

I know the learning curve question Is related to how much there is to learn but  I wondered how 'steep' it might be - Does Iclone and its interface make it easy to grasp how to do things..

Someone mention VGXI - What is it and is it found in Iclone

Is  "Facial animation and speech" 3dmesh based ? CrazyTalk as I understand just manipulates a 2D image.
I'm assuming there is Facial animation with phonemes built into basic Iclone7.Not sure as people referring to add ons like Motion Live and the Face App. 
[ By the way is Face App Apple technology. ? Is there android version - I don't have iphone ]

I guess Iray is a personal thing ! Some recommend, others don't.
I have many other thoughts but better these dealt with in aother post.
Sincer thaks for all you comments





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To answer one of your questions: iClone does have built-in lip sync, which will provide speech animation for a 3D figure. You can edit/refine the lip sync result manually. The quality is similar to that of CrazyTalk.

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Nice advice & I agree with you, but IC7 had limitation also is true.
Make it clear will aid new comer.

Nice VXGI 2.0, hope unity apply it too.
Reallusion may require it in IC8 ( little bird said ).

" Daz Studio has evolved into very capable animation tool [ but often requiring expensive add ons ] The interface has become complicated and I am loath to use it. 

What I do use is Daz's 'CarraraPro' which you may not What I do use is Daz's 'CarraraPro' which you may not 

know about because Daz no longer supports it and NEVER know about because Daz no longer supports it and NEVER 

promotes it. promotes it. 

This is not a software sell but after looking at so many programsThis is not a software sell but after looking at so many programs

I keep coming back to Carrara which is amazingly capable for theI keep coming back to Carrara which is amazingly capable for the

 asking price even though it has not been updated for over 5 years."


 asking price even though it has not been updated for over 5 years."

RAG DOLL COLLISION ANIMATIONS FOR ICLONE 8 & 7
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ghost Origins

My latest Feature length film created with Iclone.

My IMDB listing
Anabran Abdhul Quarnain - IMDb

And I'm sure you know there is no "Holy Grail" of animation software. There are great tools to work with though and each has a plus and a minus. 
iClone has met my needs for around 10 years, I've had great fun with it and even made a few bucks with it as well!



Click here to go to my YouTube Channel filled with iClone Tutes and Silly Stuff

Visit ANIMATED PROJECTIONS Powered by iCLONE

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I have been using it since version 4.

It's improved quite a long ways since then. 

Compared to others, it's a powerful little animation tool in itself and I too am a bit dissatisfied that the curve editor came as a extra. 

As for lip syncing, you can go quite far with the default. Keep in mind that it takes quite a bit of work to do. But in any practice in anywhere you go, the product will reflect how much work you put into it and how willing you are to invest time into it. 

The program itself is not too bad to pick up and learn. It takes a bit of time, but best thing to do is try and make something with it at the start. 

You don't exactly need to render with iclone in itself,there are other tools that you work alongside. 

iClone Certified Director and makes miserable Westerns.

Once again -thankyou everyone for your inputs and making time to do so.
My last two days spent following links, checking out suggestions and watching a few tutorials so have increased my knowledge of IC a bit.
Remembering I set out to get help in deciding not only whether to buy but also what to buy - I think I have learned.

I don't 'need' IRAY for good results. I can buy later if necessary.
I don't ' need ' POPCORN  because I have HITFILM which has very good particles to be added as after effect.
I don't ' need " LIGHTHSTUDIO " if IC7 has good lighting system for me to light the scene ie spot, bulb, distant, sunlight, environment etc.[I still have to investigate actual light options and effects available ]
I MIGHT need CURVE EDITOR  but can be purchased later so I don't have to decide right now.
I MIGHT need content pack - see comment below.
I MUST have 3Dexchange to bring in assets with the understanding Character Creator can bring in Daz characters without 3Dexchange.
A couple more questions which I couldn't find answer from web.
On facial animation - I have to choose FaceApp for IPhone but is it better to buy " Konect " ? I understand IC7 already has the mocap software built in to drive it?
What about a webcam - would that be any good  ? One way or another I will have to buy some hardware. 

Can IC7 physics "fracture ' objects ?  For instance "shatter glass"  Blender just got a great plugin for this.
How good or necessary is the "Content Pack" which includes all sorts of facemaps and morphs to use in CC3  ? Isn't CC3 basic good enough to produce High Quality  characters ?

Regards Carrara - as was mentioned, yes it was only updated for genesis and G2 - one of the reasons I am looking into Iclone.
Meanwhile I explore Iclone video tutorials to learn more but this is time consuming so I do appreciate you answering my questions because it is a quick but from users I also learn the " truth" - not what the promotional videos want me to believe ha ha !

Can IC7 physics "fracture ' objects ?  For instance "shatter glass" 

Blender just got a great plugin for this.Blender just got a great plugin for this.

RAG DOLL COLLISION ANIMATIONS FOR ICLONE 8 & 7
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ghost Origins

My latest Feature length film created with Iclone.

My IMDB listing
Anabran Abdhul Quarnain - IMDb

I am fairly new to animation.  I did try Daz for a graphic novel and it worked okay. I found it to be horrible for animation. After wasting lots of time and some money, I went to Unity game engine. Much easier to work with, but the cameras have a weird distorting effect on the geometry. The human characters look misshapen.  I purchased iClone 7 pipeline bundle. It has been really easy to work with so far. I have not yet mastered animating characters yet. But so far it so exponentially less frustrating to work with than Daz.  

I still find Daz characters to be the best I have ever worked with as far as detail and realism. I can import the FBX through 3DX and then drop in the Daz maps. To me, they look better than importing through CC3 pipeline (which I recently purchased and am considering returning.)

Uncertain whether this answers any of your questions. However, I am hoping a newcomer's perspective might be helpful.  Good luck in your endeavors.

Nathan

Nathan

Nathan,

If you don't like the look of Daz characters through CC3 pipeline you are doing something wrong.  They will come in with EXACTLY the same Daz maps as through XChange if you do it right.

Let us know and we can walk you through the right steps (better yet, tell us how, exactly, you are doing it and we'll tell you what you need to do differently.  Include images if you can).

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Alienware Aurora R12, Win 10, i9-119000KF, 3.5GHz CPU, 128GB RAM, RTX 3090 (24GB), Samsung 960 Pro 4TB M-2 SSD, TB+ Disk space
Mike "ex-genius" Kelley