Reallusion Native Avatars vs Daz Genesis et al

Author	Message
AutoDidact	AutoDidact Posted 6 Years Ago
Distinguished Member Group: Forum Members Last Active: 5 minutes ago Posts: 2.0K, Visits: 13.4K	Hi, I just watched a Reallusion tutorial video entitled: "Character-Creator-3-Tutorial-Getting-Started-Importing-Daz-Characters-into-Character-Creator" I forget the narrators name but its the deep voice guy that does all of the Reallusion videos and I really enjoy his work In fact I have a fairly massive archive of his videos going back to the Iclone 5.5 era. However I must admit to being a bit puzzled by RL's Strategic plan & marketing of the CC3 software thus far. I think Reallusion should focus more on promoting the New native CC3 bases and the content made for them, along with the Optimizations for game content dev as they were doing with the WIP videos before the release. In the aforementioned video I saw essentially a heavily compromised,stripped down, FBX ghost of what was once a highly versatile Genesis 8 female extracted from her native program environment . I saw major Clothes fitting problems with the "skin weights" feature that No Daz studio or poser or hivewire user would tolerate for even an instant with a commercial clothing product sold in those markets. much less sit and use the mesh edit brush to constantly fix EVERY SINGLE bit of clothing that is applied. and of course the joint correction morphs were not transfered AFAIK and the Daz native HD details of course cannot leave daz studio. I asked myself...to what end?? Why would anyone, Who already owns the free Daz studio with a free included IRay engine,$$Buy $$ CC3 and endure this process with an imported genesis Character for such a comparatively substandard result. And if you plan to send her to iclone to animate,again her appearance IMHO is no better than one of the native CC3 Avatars once stripped of all of her DAZ studio native enhancements ( JCM's,HD morphs). The same rings true for the vestigial millenium 4 Daz figures and the ones from Hivewire. IMHO, RL should focus on building and perfecting the clothing & game dev content eco system for the new native CC3 Avatars just as Daz has done exclusively for their ecosystem. RAG DOLL COLLISION ANIMATIONS FOR ICLONE 8 & 7 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ghost Origins My latest Feature length film created with Iclone. My IMDB listing Anabran Abdhul Quarnain - IMDb Edited 6 Years Ago by AutoDidact

Kelleytoons	Kelleytoons Posted 6 Years Ago
Distinguished Member Group: Forum Members Last Active: 3 days ago Posts: 9.2K, Visits: 22.1K	Except that RL is first and foremost an Animation company, and CC3 is still squarely aimed at animators, those using iClone. Using Daz characters is vastly unpractical in iClone, and CC3 makes it much more than possible. For the majority of us, this is a VAST improvement. Alienware Aurora R16, Win 11, i9-149000KF, 3.20GHz CPU, 64GB RAM, RTX 4090 (24GB), Samsung 870 Pro 8TB, Gen3 MVNe M-2 SSD, 4TBx2, 39" Alienware Widescreen Monitor Mike "ex-genius" Kelley

Dr. Nemesis	Dr. Nemesis Posted 6 Years Ago
Distinguished Member Group: Forum Members Last Active: Last Month Posts: 258, Visits: 5.4K	I'm not yet done giving CC3 an indepth look (hopefully soon) but as someone who uses Daz models for all main characters, if the tool works as advertised it'll be good. Moving Daz characters to Iclone via 3dXchange is good but not as smooth as it could've been. Converting Daz characters to Iclone default characters (I think that's how it works in CC3?) actually has some really good advantages. Also, yes some details are normally lost when moving to Iclone but if you know what you're doing you can keep them. On the left is a Daz Character when I first imported him. On the way to the right I get the missing details back. A benefit of getting him in CC is that I don't have to import all the needed stuff everytime I need to have the character make a costume change or something similar. As for why the marketing push, that's kinda obvious. Daz has a huge user base, and the tool doesn't animate as easily as Iclone. Getting some of those customers would be a win. Not to mention it really pulls in people like me who prefer the Daz models.

AutoDidact	AutoDidact Posted 6 Years Ago
Distinguished Member Group: Forum Members Last Active: 5 minutes ago Posts: 2.0K, Visits: 13.4K	Kelleytoons (10/11/2018) Except that RL is first and foremost an Animation company, and CC3 is still squarely aimed at animators, those using iClone. Using Daz characters is vastly unpractical in iClone, and CC3 makes it much more than possible. For the majority of us, this is a VAST improvement. True, however I use Daz figures exclusively but I dont bring them into Iclone. I have Pipeline so They stand naked in 3DXchange awaiting retarget of motions I have created in Iclone to export back to Daz studio where I dress them for their final render in C4D as full res MDD files with my joint control morphs baked into the point cache. On the marketing side Any Daz user who wishes to access the iclone motionbuilding tools would be better served buying Pipeline and skipping CC3 stand alone. with pipeline he could create custom BVH for his genesis people and send it back to Daz studio where he has 3Delight, clothin that fits correctly by defualt,HD morphs,JCM's and a free IRay. 3Delight looks an order of magnitude better than the Iclone native DX12 or whatever engine and will render way faster than IRay in either program. @Dr. Nemesis are you using the included normal maps for the Ivan HD DAZ character?? you still are missing quite a bit a detail compared this Daz native IRay render RAG DOLL COLLISION ANIMATIONS FOR ICLONE 8 & 7 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ghost Origins My latest Feature length film created with Iclone. My IMDB listing Anabran Abdhul Quarnain - IMDb

Dr. Nemesis	Dr. Nemesis Posted 6 Years Ago
Distinguished Member Group: Forum Members Last Active: Last Month Posts: 258, Visits: 5.4K	That's the character model but I didn't want as many wrinkles in the face so made some adjustments, and with a 3GB card so with smaller textures than I can have now. Otherwise the details in the face will almost always show more prominently in Iray. I've seen as much from comparison screenshots using CC3 Iray and the native renderer. If you're looking to compare Iray results from a model that's smoothed to several million quads, of course that'll have more detail than a 30,000 polygon model in Iclone's native renderer. (Duh?) My point is that with knowledge of the process, the Daz import doesn't have to look like the face on the left, as it normally would. No, the normal maps that come with the model don't have those details. I made a new one. Edited 6 Years Ago by Dr. Nemesis

AutoDidact	AutoDidact Posted 6 Years Ago
Distinguished Member Group: Forum Members Last Active: 5 minutes ago Posts: 2.0K, Visits: 13.4K	[b] No, the normal maps that come with the model don't have those details. . Not quite sure why you believe this. When I export my genesis Characters to Maxon Cinema4D as .obj file with thier MDD files with animation Data I export them at BASE resolution from Daz Studio with ZERO subdivisions as using Hi polygon models to render animations is not a wise use of resources. In C4D I apply their supplied normal maps and get as much detailed appearance as they had back in Daz studio . Here are some screen caps from my current movie project. You will recognize "Ivan" for the G3 model and the black guy is "Darious" for the Genesis 2 male. both at base resolution. RAG DOLL COLLISION ANIMATIONS FOR ICLONE 8 & 7 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ghost Origins My latest Feature length film created with Iclone. My IMDB listing Anabran Abdhul Quarnain - IMDb Edited 6 Years Ago by AutoDidact

donald.dade	donald.dade Posted 6 Years Ago
Veteran Member Group: Forum Members Last Active: 3 Years Ago Posts: 50, Visits: 903	I would agree with the OP that RL models are simply not in the same class as Daz ones, but Daz animation capability is not in the same class as iClone's. I came to the same conclusion, that Daz models outside of Daz Studio look like crap because the JCMs and Flexions don't get exported. But I was assured by more than one person that with CC3, these problems will be fixed. But now, after CC3 is actually out, the statements about how well Daz import actually works have been tempered and are a lot less fervent than before. So I'll ask again: If I put in the work to learn how, can I have my G8s in iClone in all their glory, i.e. JCMs and Flexions, or is it just not possible? And then I should use iClone to retarget mocap and then export it back to Daz, where I'll get all the substantial benefits of the G8? "Where there is a bash prompt, there is a way."

AutoDidact	AutoDidact Posted 6 Years Ago
Distinguished Member Group: Forum Members Last Active: 5 minutes ago Posts: 2.0K, Visits: 13.4K	Hi, Every "Daz genesis to program XXX" plugin, for the last 3 years or so have used FBX as means to get the genesis rigs out of Daz studio. Most have been for Maya and all required a certain set of choices in the morph export rules from Daz studio that resulted in a huge file sizes in the FBX export. As well as some advanced knowledge of Maya to script the Automatic implementation of the hundreds of morph shapes that daz studio uses for joint correction. Check this reallusion Video and decide for yourself if the guy is doing anything beyond a standard FBX export from Daz studio and if the "converted" G8 girl in CC3 looks any better than a native CC3 figure at the joints. I dont think she does but you make your own judgement. RAG DOLL COLLISION ANIMATIONS FOR ICLONE 8 & 7 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ghost Origins My latest Feature length film created with Iclone. My IMDB listing Anabran Abdhul Quarnain - IMDb Edited 6 Years Ago by AutoDidact

AutoDidact	AutoDidact Posted 6 Years Ago
Distinguished Member Group: Forum Members Last Active: 5 minutes ago Posts: 2.0K, Visits: 13.4K	double deleted RAG DOLL COLLISION ANIMATIONS FOR ICLONE 8 & 7 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ghost Origins My latest Feature length film created with Iclone. My IMDB listing Anabran Abdhul Quarnain - IMDb Edited 6 Years Ago by AutoDidact

animagic	animagic Posted 6 Years Ago
Distinguished Member Group: Forum Members Last Active: 8 hours ago Posts: 15.8K, Visits: 31.2K	Marketing in this video may be aimed at a different user base than yourself, so I see nothing wrong with that. I don't use external applications to render, so for me it may be interesting to actually consider using DAZ figures.

Reallusion Native Avatars vs Daz Genesis et al

Reallusion Native Avatars vs Daz Genesis et al

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