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sonic7
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sonic7
Posted 7 Years Ago
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Group: Forum Members
Last Active: 2 Years Ago
Posts: 1.7K,
Visits: 19.4K
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I'm still learning this,... but here's a theory ....
O.K. - Let's say you're trying to render a big project - but on a PC with limited performance ....
We're talking here of iClone being used to create mainly 'static' background sets/scenes, with either animated avatars OR 'live' keyed foreground action (even if done later).
In particular, getting 'Ultra HD' quality output, with 3x3 Super Sampling, HQ Shadows, 16x Anisotropic Filtering, Quality End LOD, bla bla etc etc.
So, yeah - you want a specky output .... - but (with 3840 x 2160 pixel frames) you're taking a performance hit on you PC. - (Well, at least I do)....
So here's the point ...... What if you can 'cheat' a bit.... (NB: I haven't tried this yet).
Being in this EXACT predicament, I came up with this (possible) answer:
Given that you're using 'static' shots, (no camera movement), why not render out a 3840x2160 single 'frame', using this as your 'background' for either your 'Keyed' live action or as a background for animated action. I know this is nothing 'new', but here's the next bit....
You could embellish this otherwise 'static' shot with subtle FX (be it fog, dust - whatever), and here's the twist .....
Using a 2nd (similar) frame created with slight 'differences' .... ie: imagine a scene with a background composed of 'lights' (in front of which the 'keyed' action takes place) .... now, this 2nd background frame might have a tiny 'rotation' of the light(s), and/or a 'color change'.... Now, using these frames (1 & 2), in a standard non linear video editor - the 2 'instances' could easily be fast transitioned back and forward via quick dissolves - to 'emulate' a 'live' (real time) background. ie: lights rotating or color changing)
Though not a good as 'real' ... if your rendering time takes many seconds per frame and you're dealing with lengthy footage (and it's static), then this may be a possible solution? I'm seriously thinking of going down this path with my current iClone project.
Any thoughts or opinions on this - maybe a better way ? ....
Steve ...
◇◇◇ Every artist was first an amateur. ◇◇◇ - Unknown
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Please be patient with me ..... I don't always 'get it' the first time 'round - not even the 2nd time! :( - yikes! ... ● MSI GT72VR Laptop, i7 7700HQ 4-Core 3.8 GHz 16GB RAM; Nvidia 1070, 8GB Vram ● iClone-7.93 ● 3DXChange Pipeline 7.81 ● CC-3 Pipeline 3.44 ● Live Face ● HeadShot ● Brekel Pro-Body ● Popcorn FX ● iRAY ● Kinect V2 ● DaVinci Resolve17 ● Mixcraft 8.1
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mtakerkart
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mtakerkart
Posted 7 Years Ago
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Group: Forum Members
Last Active: 3 Months Ago
Posts: 3.2K,
Visits: 29.2K
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Hi sonic7 ,
I don't know how complex/big are your projects but a good understanding what is game engine is a must for big project.
This video I made in 2015 is a UDK 4 project playing in realtime on My last pc with a 16G of ram , I5 and an 970TI Nvidia card.
Rendering the movie take 1,5 sec/frame.
The clown you'll see in the video is a proof that's me. Why does this huge project works in realtime? Just because all the props/characters
are realtime optimize (few textures by object , instancing, LOD manadgment, baking light/shadow, etc.....). I really suggest you to buy some Game props (Reallusion,UDK , unity assets store)
to use/understand. You will be amaze of your machin's performance.
PS: Iclone doesn't have light baking and LOD is only for trees and plant.
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mtakerkart
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mtakerkart
Posted 7 Years Ago
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Group: Forum Members
Last Active: 3 Months Ago
Posts: 3.2K,
Visits: 29.2K
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I can understand people want to dive in the "hollywood" process with compositing pipeline but I think they have to be realist of what it is implies....
Hollywood use compositing because of the frame resolution witch no artstation can handle the Data. They build it layer by layer as you know.
But compositing take huge ressources/time consuming.
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Kelleytoons
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Kelleytoons
Posted 7 Years Ago
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Group: Forum Members
Last Active: Last Year
Posts: 9.2K,
Visits: 22.1K
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Steve, As the previous poster says, this is the way that Hollywood (or any professional) does it. Our studio used to spend a lot of time with composites in the old days because it was the only way to feasibly get anything done at all (forget high resolutions -- even SD took days to render a frame or two). Even now I often will do stuff in post (like with After Effects) this way, but it's getting rarer and rarer. To me the beauty of iClone is that you can see all you want to do all in there. The problem with working nearly everything in post is that unless you have a LOT of resources (like a team working with you) there will be so many things you can't account for you will be rerending again and again, trying to get it right. I would much rather get it right either the first or second time then spend a ton of time getting all the layers to interact properly. But to each his own -- everyone can do what they want. For me, even if I have to walk away while iClone renders for a few days would be worth not having to make my poor old brain try and figure it all out in post (and what does your computer do at night while you're sleeping or in the day while you're at work anyway?)
Alienware Aurora R16, Win 11, i9-149000KF, 3.20GHz CPU, 64GB RAM, RTX 4090 (24GB), Samsung 870 Pro 8TB, Gen3 MVNe M-2 SSD, 4TBx2, 39" Alienware Widescreen Monitor
Mike "ex-genius" Kelley
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wildstar
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wildstar
Posted 7 Years Ago
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Group: Forum Members
Last Active: 9 Months Ago
Posts: 1.2K,
Visits: 5.1K
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sonic7 (4/10/2018)
I'm still learning this,... but here's a theory ....
O.K. - Let's say you're trying to render a big project - but on a PC with limited performance ....
We're talking here of iClone being used to create mainly 'static' background sets/scenes, with either animated avatars OR 'live' keyed foreground action (even if done later).
In particular, getting 'Ultra HD' quality output, with 3x3 Super Sampling, HQ Shadows, 16x Anisotropic Filtering, Quality End LOD, bla bla etc etc.
So, yeah - you want a specky output .... - but (with 3840 x 2160 pixel frames) you're taking a performance hit on you PC. - (Well, at least I do)....
So here's the point ...... What if you can 'cheat' a bit.... (NB: I haven't tried this yet).
Being in this EXACT predicament, I came up with this (possible) answer:
Given that you're using 'static' shots, (no camera movement), why not render out a 3840x2160 single 'frame', using this as your 'background' for either your 'Keyed' live action or as a background for animated action. I know this is nothing 'new', but here's the next bit....
You could embellish this otherwise 'static' shot with subtle FX (be it fog, dust - whatever), and here's the twist .....
Using a 2nd (similar) frame created with slight 'differences' .... ie: imagine a scene with a background composed of 'lights' (in front of which the 'keyed' action takes place) .... now, this 2nd background frame might have a tiny 'rotation' of the light(s), and/or a 'color change'.... Now, using these frames (1 & 2), in a standard non linear video editor - the 2 'instances' could easily be fast transitioned back and forward via quick dissolves - to 'emulate' a 'live' (real time) background. ie: lights rotating or color changing)
Though not a good as 'real' ... if your rendering time takes many seconds per frame and you're dealing with lengthy footage (and it's static), then this may be a possible solution? I'm seriously thinking of going down this path with my current iClone project.
Any thoughts or opinions on this - maybe a better way ? ....
Steve ...
◇◇◇ Every artist was first an amateur. ◇◇◇ - Unknown
First forget all things on iclone like supersampling on render output(use preview mode ) or surpress shadow flicker its all useless use low maps shadows (512x512) with softshadow in maximum (3) ,render your scene with iclone in full screen ( get the viewport big at maximum you can. ) use the DSR hack if your monitor is 1080p, if your monitor is 4k you dont need use DSR hack .just put your iclone on full screen with the viewport big as you can.this will make you get the best render output you can actualy with iclone . and in preview mode you will get fast render at 4k resolution
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wildstar
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wildstar
Posted 7 Years Ago
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Group: Forum Members
Last Active: 9 Months Ago
Posts: 1.2K,
Visits: 5.1K
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ahh make sure turn off depth of field this spoil the image quality in 90% of situations. and if you use popcorn FX, render in separated pass cause if you mix with other things on iclone this will make you see problems with iclone masks like glows. and bad antialiass.
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TonyDPrime
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TonyDPrime
Posted 7 Years Ago
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Group: Forum Members
Last Active: Last Year
Posts: 3.4K,
Visits: 12.4K
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mtakerkart (4/10/2018)
Hi sonic7 ,
I don't know how complex/big are your projects but a good understanding what is game engine is a must for big project.
This video I made in 2015 is a UDK 4 project playing in realtime on My last pc with a 16G of ram , I5 and an 970TI Nvidia card.
Rendering the movie take 1,5 sec/frame.
The clown you'll see in the video is a proof that's me. Why does this huge project works in realtime? Just because all the props/characters
are realtime optimize (few textures by object , instancing, LOD manadgment, baking light/shadow, etc.....). I really suggest you to buy some Game props (Reallusion,UDK , unity assets store)
to use/understand. You will be amaze of your machin's performance.
PS: Iclone doesn't have light baking and LOD is only for trees and plant.
Oh My GOD! Please stop using iClone and just do Unreal, this is Incredible! Did you use iClone to do any of that? Know what, I don't care! This just sold me... UE4! UE4! UE4! UE4!
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mtakerkart
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mtakerkart
Posted 7 Years Ago
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Group: Forum Members
Last Active: 3 Months Ago
Posts: 3.2K,
Visits: 29.2K
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Did you use iClone to do any of that?
No because it was in 2015. But today you can do it in Iclone 7.2. The only Iclone missing feature is volumetric lights.
Today this render goal is reached by Iclone. I'm just waiting CC3 to go on but I have no doubt today of the Iclone render
for my needs.
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wildstar
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wildstar
Posted 7 Years Ago
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Group: Forum Members
Last Active: 9 Months Ago
Posts: 1.2K,
Visits: 5.1K
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mtakerkart (4/11/2018)
Did you use iClone to do any of that?
No because it was in 2015. But today you can do it in Iclone 7.2. The only Iclone missing feature is volumetric lights.
Today this render goal is reached by Iclone. I'm just waiting CC3 to go on but I have no doubt today of the Iclone render
for my needs. with that same image definition?? sharpen textures and clean lines ? i am sory my friend but NOT you just cant and i dont considerate a lot of things , screen space reflections, baking lights for more precise light response, powerfull shader/material tools to give this visual. and etc ... :/
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wildstar
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wildstar
Posted 7 Years Ago
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Group: Forum Members
Last Active: 9 Months Ago
Posts: 1.2K,
Visits: 5.1K
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things on iclone looks like blurred , washed, i really give way to try undestand what happen . but i make a animation of a trailer for my new youtube project and i make 3 versions , toolbag 3 version , iclone 7 version ( i try give all i know to get the most beautifull result on iclone ) and a octane version ( redering at 4 secs per frame with 60 samples ) and i will post on forum soon
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