In the Unreal forum world, it's like no one is even asking really for the "a" (raw system visual updates), and like here, people are very weightedly attached to existing in "b" (accepting and then pushing the limits of what you have). 
But then Epic, in network with their affiliates, are pushing the "a" constantly - ie - Siren, Andy Serkis, etc.  They must see this approach as being more profitable, or reflective on their business progress.
Could you imagine if there was this in the iClone realm, a top-down obsessing over the next upgrade to graphical fidelity?  Instead I sense more of a broader, or diffuse, graphical approach.  The discussions from RL are not very specifically granular at all with regards to updating PBR, it comes more from the community here.  I do not say this is 'good' or 'bad'. 
However, there might be a business reason why we see what we see.  Maybe iClone is more profitable when it broadens its scope of film making toolset, and this is why we see less rendering development, and then outsourced rendering solutions.  I know PBR is new to iClone, but it was not updated with added features since it's release.  I mean PFX was a visual update, but an outsourced one, not an internal one to the engine.  Iray will also be an outsourced-type solution, not an internal update one.   Perhaps this methodology is working for RL, so why mess with anything.  I'll say this much, outside renderers aside, iClone is a buzillion light years ahead of Daz, Max, and Maya.     

Hi!
How to use the DSR hack?




My YouTube channel.

edit ....

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Please be patient with me ..... I don't always 'get it' the first time 'round - not even the 2nd time! :(  - yikes! ... 

● MSI GT72VR Laptop, i7 7700HQ 4-Core 3.8 GHz 16GB RAM; Nvidia 1070, 8GB Vram ● iClone-7.93 ● 3DXChange Pipeline 7.81 ● CC-3 Pipeline 3.44 ● Live Face ● HeadShot ● Brekel Pro-Body ● Popcorn FX ● iRAY ● Kinect V2 ● DaVinci Resolve17 ● Mixcraft 8.1

@Lamias
Yes, you and I can perhaps only 'aspire' to such amazing visuals (different program of course)....
But it depends what a person's aim is.... I love Sci- Fi - and IF I ever created a sci-film, I personally wouldn't go for that level of sophistication. I'd concentrate more on a good story line and be modest with the visuals... I totally agree with you, (in it's current form), iClone couldn't deliver at that level - and even if it could - I wouldn't have the experience to obtain it.
So yeah - I guess it's a matter of being happy with what we have atm and just doing our best with it. And let's face it, there's ways and there's ways...... Film has always been a bit of 'smoke and mirrors' - the same can be true now with iclone - using whatever tricks it takes to get what you're after.....
Steve.

◇◇◇ Sometimes you need to talk to a three year old - so you can understand life again. ◇◇◇  - Unknown

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Please be patient with me ..... I don't always 'get it' the first time 'round - not even the 2nd time! :(  - yikes! ... 

● MSI GT72VR Laptop, i7 7700HQ 4-Core 3.8 GHz 16GB RAM; Nvidia 1070, 8GB Vram ● iClone-7.93 ● 3DXChange Pipeline 7.81 ● CC-3 Pipeline 3.44 ● Live Face ● HeadShot ● Brekel Pro-Body ● Popcorn FX ● iRAY ● Kinect V2 ● DaVinci Resolve17 ● Mixcraft 8.1

My hardware (which I don't think is the problem): CPU Intel i7 6700 @ 3.40GHz, SSD, MoBo Gigabyte Z170X, RAM 16 gb and GPU GTX 1070 with 8 gb VRAM. Yes, I have tried to create something like this, and yes, I failed hilariously. But I am not taking myself seriously, I have a limited knowledge of IC so I am not expecting myself to create this.

Anyway. I believe I will remain in standby, waiting to see a project with graphics that could even remotely look like what I saw in that video. Not still frames though, a fully animated project with characters, cameras, lights, shadows, facial expressions etc, which will also be workable inside IC and not needing 256 gb of RAM to edit it. I will also never stop trying to create something like this. If I can't, I won't take myself as a point of reference or think that this proves anything because my skills are average at best.

But in the meantime, I still believe that it's just an engine difference. Maybe IC's engine is not capable of offering this, because if it was, someone would have done it in the 2 years IC 7 is out.

So yes, telling a good story in a captivating way is a must, this is unanimous. But If I had to choose between telling a fantastic story in amazing graphics, and telling a fantastic story in mediocre graphics, I don't know why I would choose the latter. Unless I couldn't achieve the first. :unsure:





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My YouTube Channel
Phoenix   ;)

Thank You, Mike. 

@Tony - No, and I'm not very good at painting - I don't think my results would be convincing.



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Please be patient with me ..... I don't always 'get it' the first time 'round - not even the 2nd time! :(  - yikes! ... 

● MSI GT72VR Laptop, i7 7700HQ 4-Core 3.8 GHz 16GB RAM; Nvidia 1070, 8GB Vram ● iClone-7.93 ● 3DXChange Pipeline 7.81 ● CC-3 Pipeline 3.44 ● Live Face ● HeadShot ● Brekel Pro-Body ● Popcorn FX ● iRAY ● Kinect V2 ● DaVinci Resolve17 ● Mixcraft 8.1

Well, there you go Steve!  IllusionLab describing Matte Painting - how's this for "a quicker way"....!

98% of "epic" shots we see in Films and TV are seldom completely built in one 3D scene.  More often than not, everything in the distance is a matte painting - simple geometry is laid out as a guide for the Matte Painter, and they "paint" the scene as a traditional 2D frame (usually rather large!).  If camera move parallax is needed, that matte painting will be projected onto the layout geometry.  Atmospheric effects, smoke etc. are added by Compositors when 'finishing' the shot - sometimes they are 3D rendered elements, sometimes the 'fog' and other volumetrics are faked using the 3D tools in compositing programs like Nuke, Fusion or After Effects.  Even the biggest VFX studios wouldn't attempt half the stuff we do in iClone in one software package - so, delegating tasks to the 'best' software for the job is absolutely the way to go - for speed, for creativity and for "cinematic" results.

JAV, I agree with your thoughts as well.  I must say I learn from you and KT, always.  
I like how you "a" and "b" the 2, they sometimes get criss-crossed in these forums, right? 
I think when Wildstar and I are breaking down what it would entail to get "a", we do not mean for the discussion to intrude or pass judgement on all of our efforts to visually achieve "b".    

I should add as well...Sonic Steve, great thread!