<<< Never mind >>>

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iClone 7... Character Creator... Substance Designer/Painter... Blender... Audacity...
Desktop (homebuilt) - Windows 10, Ryzen 9 3900x CPU, GTX 1080 GPU (8GB), 32GB RAM, Asus X570 Pro motherboard, 2TB SSD, terabytes of disk space, dual  monitors.
Laptop - Windows 10, MSI GS63VR STEALTH-252, 16GB RAM, GTX 1060 (6GB), 256GB SSD and 1TB HDD

There wasn't a debate as far as I am concerned, that's just crazy.  I just know that RL markets to the hobbyist as well as the professional very well.  
And I agree with you that, say in the case of a Unity vs Unreal comparison, the 'good game' comes from the creator, not the engine itself.
But since you bring it up, why would anyone here who supports a hobbyist user base then be against getting "a big red button" to make steps in making a game familiar and easy?  
Why would this be a bad thing>  This would be AWESOME!  
If you and I are both hobbyists, what would we have to lose by having such a great option brought to us by RL in the future?  

I use the term "Hobbyist" for myself because:
- I am not doing iClone work for hire (with rare exception)
- To make it clear I am not working at a studio
- To avoid any pretense regarding my (current) abilities and quality of output
- My primary goals are personal education and entertainment

As Job and Guy pointed out, a hobbyist can utilize a very professional approach to a project, have a professional attitude, and achieve stunning results.

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iClone 7... Character Creator... Substance Designer/Painter... Blender... Audacity...
Desktop (homebuilt) - Windows 10, Ryzen 9 3900x CPU, GTX 1080 GPU (8GB), 32GB RAM, Asus X570 Pro motherboard, 2TB SSD, terabytes of disk space, dual  monitors.
Laptop - Windows 10, MSI GS63VR STEALTH-252, 16GB RAM, GTX 1060 (6GB), 256GB SSD and 1TB HDD

I don't like the hobbyist term because even though I probably am one (I'm not making any money with my movies), it implies that I could not be professional in my approach to filmmaking.  

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And if the Eiffel Tower was green, Cows would visit it.

Seriously, what is a shame is that you are trying to put oil on the professional/hobbyists debate, and this is unhealthy, sick even. You are trying to make novices believing that it is possible to have access to the ultimate software with the big red button labeled *make the movie - or game - I have in mind*. You are just thorwing a mountain of idiocies towards novices.

Yet, being a novice has nothing to do with being a hobbyist. Lot of hobbyists here  have high technical knowledge, and I meet a lot of novices in my professional environment.

Sure, a novice could become successful at game making, at movie making, at cooking, at programming, at whatever he want to do, but not because of the tool you give to him, but because of the knowledge and the experience he will acquire with work and efforts.

The truth is, if you don't know what you are doing, you won't succeed, talented or not. Simple as that.

--
guy rabiller | GOETZIWOOD STUDIOS
"N.O.E." (Nations Of Earth) Sci-Fi TV Show, Showrunner.

An iClone Game Engine could be very much like FaceWare and PopcornFX, in that the users in iClone could be completely ignorant about similar outside application, or in the case of Faceware and PopcornFX an outside standalone....
but RL could "bring the mountain to you." 
This is where RL shines so well.  They take complicated things and simplify a version of it it very nicely to fit in the iClone UI.

So a Game Engine is a complicated thing, but I believe that RL could come in and integrate a much more user-friendly and easy version for the iClone user, just like Faceware and PopcornFX.
The hobbyist again would be a focal point, along with the professional. 
This is where RL is so powerful! 

It wouldn't have to be aimed at those of us that are the self-proclaimed experts of game making engines. 
Exactly the opposite, it could target the novice, who knows absolutely nothing.  Thus, the novice could become successful at game making.
I have said this before, some people HATE this so much, because they dislike the hobbyist gaining an 'easy-simple' way to do something, while they have been wrapping their heads into other version's complexities for years. 
A very anti-hobbyist thought process.  A shame.

Anyway...
Saw that Distance Field Ambient Occlusion would be something these other engines have that that would benefit iClone realtime...I don't think it has this yet for draw distance visuals? 
So far visual things that could help FPS - baking (for lighting, refractions, reflections, AO, shadows, etc...), occlusion culling (non-rendering of non-visible objects), and distance field ambient occlusion.

I really wondered this thread got that much impact :crazy:
My two cents:
Don't play games with my iClone!




Toystorylab on Vimeo :     Crassitudes (my "Alter Ego") on Youtube: 

Thinking much the same... After several "Iclone AP 7 has stopped responding" messages in the course of an eight hour working day, I shudder to think what it would be like with a gaming engine attached.

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Facebook Page: CWK3D Game and Film Content
Cancer Survivor - Retired Teacher - Geriatric Icloner still learning
Hardware: ZX80; Operating System- ZX80 Basic; CPU - ZX80 @ 3.25 MHz; Memory - 1KB; Hard Drive - N/A; Storage - Cassette; Monitor: Any old CRT TV

These threads must be so entertaining for RL! :P

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Whoa!  Holodeck interface!