To PBR or not to PBR? - Some issues encountered.

Author	Message
Colonel_Klink	Colonel_Klink Posted 8 Years Ago
Distinguished Member Group: Forum Members Last Active: 16 hours ago Posts: 1.1K, Visits: 7.7K	Meet Roger. This rendering is from iClone 6 with default lighting. 74% of original size (was 676x19) - Click to enlarge This is Roger again but this time rendered in iClone with the default lighting with skin but not clothing set to PBR Notice how the shirt color changes. Also black turns grey. 74% of original size (was 676x19) - Click to enlarge Roger again in iClone 7. This time with the same light set-up as iClone 6 74% of original size (was 676x19) - Click to enlarge Now in iClone 7 with PBR removed from the skin 74% of original size (was 676x19) - Click to enlarge I'm not too sure what I am doing wrong here but the more I fiddle with the PBR settings the worse things get. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * See all my content in one place 74% of original size (was 676x19) - Click to enlarge Facebook Page: CWK3D Game and Film Content Cancer Survivor - Retired Teacher - Geriatric Icloner still learning Hardware: ZX80; Operating System- ZX80 Basic; CPU - ZX80 @ 3.25 MHz; Memory - 1KB; Hard Drive - N/A; Storage - Cassette; Monitor: Any old CRT TV

Kelleytoons	Kelleytoons Posted 8 Years Ago
Distinguished Member Group: Forum Members Last Active: Last Year Posts: 9.2K, Visits: 22.1K	How do you actually have your lighting setup? It makes a HUGE difference using PBR materials. Typically I turn IBL WAY down (7-9) and light with only GI -- get GREAT lighting that way with minimal effort. I throw in a spot every now and then, and for outdoor scenes I'll use a directional light, but to me the key with PBR is to not overdo the IBL (and to sparsely use fill and other lights). Alienware Aurora R16, Win 11, i9-149000KF, 3.20GHz CPU, 64GB RAM, RTX 4090 (24GB), Samsung 870 Pro 8TB, Gen3 MVNe M-2 SSD, 4TBx2, 39" Alienware Widescreen Monitor Mike "ex-genius" Kelley

animagic	animagic Posted 8 Years Ago
Distinguished Member Group: Forum Members Last Active: 2 Weeks Ago Posts: 15.8K, Visits: 31.3K	I have found that it's either all PBR (including the project setting obviously) or all Traditional, and that mixing doesn't work well. I haven't really done much with legacy projects, but I have not encountered major color changes. That said, lighting is very important and with global illumination you need fewer regular lights. It's a bit of a learning process. There is a number of webinars by stuckon3d that are helpful, or you may try to contact him. I have played with IC7 for a while now and I wouldn't want to go back, but adjustments/tweaking of legacy content is often required. EDIT: Kelley was quicker... 74% of original size (was 676x19) - Click to enlarge

justaviking	justaviking Posted 8 Years Ago
Distinguished Member Group: Forum Members Last Active: Last Year Posts: 8.2K, Visits: 26.5K	A great advantage to PBR is, when you get your materials right, you should "never" need to adjust them again to look right in changing lighting conditions. Sunlight, moonlight, incandescent, fluorescent, campfire... the great value of PBR is the material reacts realistically to the light (because it's physically based). In the past, people who cared about the appearance of their scene's visual appearance would have to tweak the diffuse and specular lighting values to match the lighting in the scene. With rare exception (usually for artistic purposes), you don't need to do that with a PBR workflow. If these are "converted" materials (shirt/skin/whatever) you may need to adjust the base color and roughness manually. Don't assume the automatic legacy-to-PBR conversion is perfect. You probably want to do the material fine-tuning in a moderate, even a "studio" lighting situation first, then check it in one or two scenes to be sure. So keep at it. I trust it will be worthwhile once you get the materials correct. iClone 7... Character Creator... Substance Designer/Painter... Blender... Audacity... Desktop (homebuilt) - Windows 10, Ryzen 9 3900x CPU, GTX 1080 GPU (8GB), 32GB RAM, Asus X570 Pro motherboard, 2TB SSD, terabytes of disk space, dual monitors. Laptop - Windows 10, MSI GS63VR STEALTH-252, 16GB RAM, GTX 1060 (6GB), 256GB SSD and 1TB HDD

Colonel_Klink	Colonel_Klink Posted 8 Years Ago
Distinguished Member Group: Forum Members Last Active: 16 hours ago Posts: 1.1K, Visits: 7.7K	Thanks for your replies, Guys. Here is a new render with IBL set to 9 and Roger's skin PBR Roughness settings at Brightness -13 and Contrast at 8. I'm not too concerned with the cloth settings as they are stock cloth with diffuse color changes. However the skin tones are not as vibrant and as dark as in the iClone 6 pic in the original post. Still, it looks okay. My concern is that I'm producing characters for the market place and attempting to eliminate issues before the occur for the end-user. 74% of original size (was 676x19) - Click to enlarge * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * See all my content in one place 74% of original size (was 676x19) - Click to enlarge Facebook Page: CWK3D Game and Film Content Cancer Survivor - Retired Teacher - Geriatric Icloner still learning Hardware: ZX80; Operating System- ZX80 Basic; CPU - ZX80 @ 3.25 MHz; Memory - 1KB; Hard Drive - N/A; Storage - Cassette; Monitor: Any old CRT TV

Colonel_Klink	Colonel_Klink Posted 8 Years Ago
Distinguished Member Group: Forum Members Last Active: 16 hours ago Posts: 1.1K, Visits: 7.7K	Here's the look I'd like to achieve (Levels done in Photoshop). 74% of original size (was 676x19) - Click to enlarge * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * See all my content in one place 74% of original size (was 676x19) - Click to enlarge Facebook Page: CWK3D Game and Film Content Cancer Survivor - Retired Teacher - Geriatric Icloner still learning Hardware: ZX80; Operating System- ZX80 Basic; CPU - ZX80 @ 3.25 MHz; Memory - 1KB; Hard Drive - N/A; Storage - Cassette; Monitor: Any old CRT TV

Colonel_Klink	Colonel_Klink Posted 8 Years Ago
Distinguished Member Group: Forum Members Last Active: 16 hours ago Posts: 1.1K, Visits: 7.7K	Closer to what I want to achieve, but what concerns me is how PBR deals with eyebrows and hair... black for some reason turns grey. 74% of original size (was 676x19) - Click to enlarge * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * See all my content in one place 74% of original size (was 676x19) - Click to enlarge Facebook Page: CWK3D Game and Film Content Cancer Survivor - Retired Teacher - Geriatric Icloner still learning Hardware: ZX80; Operating System- ZX80 Basic; CPU - ZX80 @ 3.25 MHz; Memory - 1KB; Hard Drive - N/A; Storage - Cassette; Monitor: Any old CRT TV

justaviking	justaviking Posted 8 Years Ago
Distinguished Member Group: Forum Members Last Active: Last Year Posts: 8.2K, Visits: 26.5K	What are you using to adjust the colors? Not that it matters, simply curious. The "Adjust Color" widget in iClone (contrast, hue, contrast), or in CC, or in an external editor such as Photoshop? P.S. Good looking character. iClone 7... Character Creator... Substance Designer/Painter... Blender... Audacity... Desktop (homebuilt) - Windows 10, Ryzen 9 3900x CPU, GTX 1080 GPU (8GB), 32GB RAM, Asus X570 Pro motherboard, 2TB SSD, terabytes of disk space, dual monitors. Laptop - Windows 10, MSI GS63VR STEALTH-252, 16GB RAM, GTX 1060 (6GB), 256GB SSD and 1TB HDD

Colonel_Klink	Colonel_Klink Posted 8 Years Ago
Distinguished Member Group: Forum Members Last Active: 16 hours ago Posts: 1.1K, Visits: 7.7K	justaviking (9/26/2017) What are you using to adjust the colors? Not that it matters, simply curious. The "Adjust Color" widget in iClone (contrast, hue, contrast), or in CC, or in an external editor such as Photoshop? P.S. Good looking character. I'm adjusting the colors using the PBR sliders. I've decide to experiment on my next character in CC2 then convert it back to CC so that iClone 6 people can use it as well. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * See all my content in one place 74% of original size (was 676x19) - Click to enlarge Facebook Page: CWK3D Game and Film Content Cancer Survivor - Retired Teacher - Geriatric Icloner still learning Hardware: ZX80; Operating System- ZX80 Basic; CPU - ZX80 @ 3.25 MHz; Memory - 1KB; Hard Drive - N/A; Storage - Cassette; Monitor: Any old CRT TV

Colonel_Klink	Colonel_Klink Posted 8 Years Ago
Distinguished Member Group: Forum Members Last Active: 16 hours ago Posts: 1.1K, Visits: 7.7K	Here's the updated characters after re-skinning in CC2. That is from my iClone 7 settings. The problem will be how they look on other people's iClone 7 74% of original size (was 676x19) - Click to enlarge H74% of original size (was 676x19) - Click to enlarge * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * See all my content in one place 74% of original size (was 676x19) - Click to enlarge Facebook Page: CWK3D Game and Film Content Cancer Survivor - Retired Teacher - Geriatric Icloner still learning Hardware: ZX80; Operating System- ZX80 Basic; CPU - ZX80 @ 3.25 MHz; Memory - 1KB; Hard Drive - N/A; Storage - Cassette; Monitor: Any old CRT TV