the need of curve editor is not for the ease/smooth/interpolation . We had that since a long time.
Curve editor is to have access to x,y,z translation and x,y,z rotation SEPARATELY AND NOT IN ONE TRACK!!!!!

In my opinion, the graph editor seems misplaced.

I certainly understand it being a premium feature, but in my view it should be one tier (level/bundle/package) below Pipeline.

To me, Pipeline is for people who want to export assets for use in non-iClone applications, often by other people.  That market would have a lot of focus on game developers.

Movie makers never need their assets to leave their computer, as they only export the movie.  (I'm ignoring "production teams" for the moment.)  A person making a movie will certainly benefit from the graph editor.  In my opinion (which is worth very little to Reallusion), you should not need a Pipeline license in order to have access to the graph editor.

Lastly, as Animagic has eloquently pointed out, based on past experience with Reallusion, there is room for some corrections (possibly) and clarifications (certainly) to the limited, initial publication of the marketing material for iClone 7.

---

iClone 7... Character Creator... Substance Designer/Painter... Blender... Audacity...
Desktop (homebuilt) - Windows 10, Ryzen 9 3900x CPU, GTX 1080 GPU (8GB), 32GB RAM, Asus X570 Pro motherboard, 2TB SSD, terabytes of disk space, dual  monitors.
Laptop - Windows 10, MSI GS63VR STEALTH-252, 16GB RAM, GTX 1060 (6GB), 256GB SSD and 1TB HDD

There are some possible tricks that will give you smoothing when puppeteering with the mouse, but a graph editor really is not it.

You could try setting your mouse speed to super slow before capturing. This should allow for a slower, smoother movement of your wrist, and thus less jumpiness. The next step would be to thin the data. Squish the clip out to twice as short and recapture it using the direct puppet without recording anything new. Now stretch it back to normal length. That should give you a less dense stream of points to work with.

Mouse puppeteering is tricky to do well.

:rolleyes: whatever. I'll just let it go.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


My system: i7 3770 Gtx1060 6GB

@Rampa
Yup, I plan a very thorough play'n'pause session on that video today, see what else there is, see what I've missed.

Will have to play with your suggestions for mouse smoothing, but we shouldn't have to do that, the feature should have been there over a decade ago now.  Anyway, if you hear a lot of shouting and screaming later today, don't worry, it just means I've spotted smoothing controls for the mouse while examining the video :D


@Dennis
Totally agree, and to be honest I'm beginning to think what Job said about typos could well be the case here.  Before, we had a version of iClone that didn't have timeline features, but that version has gone now so maybe they intended to do the same sort of thing with the Curve Edtor, as in only the most basic version of iClone doesn't have it.  Not only that, I've always assumed "Pipeline" is so-called due to it's nature of being able to sit in a Pipeline due to it's extra export features.  That makes perfect sense, but a Curve Editor has everything to do with animation (and therefore iClone), and nothing at all to do with a Pipeline.

A Curve Editor is certainly "misplaced" being Pipeline only as you put it.


@sw00000p
Not all dedicated animation software does, and that is our point, because iClone doesn't.  It shoves everything into one track as Marc pointed out, and it does the same when recording each pass using the motion and mouse tools.  It's great being able to record one pass at a time, but it's severely limited by the fact that it does not record to separate layers while doing that.  Stop making excuses, it's ridiculous, and it's not like it would be rocket science to implement, either.  All they need to do is make it record to a seperate track each time, as long as you've enabled multi-layer recording.  Technically, it would still work the same as it does now, it's still recording to a track (only it automatically creates a new track to record to this time).  That's the only difference, so I don't see the point in keeping this insanely powerful and easy to implement feature from us.  The feature not being there, just like no mouse smooting, is incomprehensibly ridiculous for a product such as this.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not being mean, and I will buy iClone anyway if I can, they've even given it the Anamorphic abilities I was desperately hoping for and I'm incredibly grateful to them for that, so I want to support them.  To implement something like Anamorphic abilities means they understood why it would be needed in a program like iClone (even though hardly anyone even knows what it is).  So it just makes it all the more puzzling why mouse smoothing and recording to seperate tracks weren't already implemented years ago, because they're incredibly important and obviously needed in iClone due to it's design and the way it works!

It's as crazy as haivng a car with a steering wheel that cannot be steered to go where you want it to :Wow:

My thinking on tools to improve the editing stage of the animation: everything depends on what the IC7 API I/F allows us to do.
Imagine the most powerful scenario where:

1. the API I/F makes it possible to "touch", in real-time (i.e. modification are immediately applied), every animation parameters (i.e. X/Y/Z for translation, rotation, etc.).
2. the API I/F makes it possible to build a real-time GUI

Then, every prospective to see this or that ever-dreamt tool might become real.
I am quite curious about how much can we do with the IC7 APIs 

  Roberto




My PC:
OS: Windows 10 Pro English 64-bit / CPU: Intel i7-9700 3.6GHz / MB: ASUS ROG Strix Z390  RAM: 32GB DDR4 2.6GHz / HD: 2TB+3TB  /  SSD: 2x512GB Samsung 860 EVO + 1x2TB Samsung
VB: Palit GTX2080 TI GamingPro 11GB / AB: embedded in the MB and VB (audio from the MOTU M4 I/F) / DirectX: 12

@Roberto
I hope RL make as much functionality available as possible to those of you who can program this stuff, and it sounds like there's two options for coding custom stuff cause there's that API thing you mention and there's a Custom Shader feature as well.  I'd love to be able to program Custom Shaders but I recall when I looked into it before, it was very math heavy and I hate math!

And if you saw my programming skills, you'll understand that the last time I tried it was on the good old Commodore 64 :

10 PRINT "Hello there,"
20 PRINT "Peasant Master!"
30 GOTO 10
RUN

Ah ... crap ... this must be one of those "loops" they warned me about ... :Wow:



@sw00000p
You seem to be forgetting something VERY important here, I said iClone does not have this.
They have added this feature to 3DXchange Pipeline, not iClone :Wow:

And either way, it is no excuse for not having that other stuff!

sw00000p, you can't keep using that same tactic of saying I can't use Blender, just to get around what was written :doze:
What you keep saying there just isn't true, as was explained time and time again!

The only reason I'm not going to use Blender with iClone for animation purposes is because I don't like jumping between programs :Wow:
If I were intending to animate in Blender, I'd be using Blender's super-poweful animation toolset!

No if about it sw00000p, it's true, and it's not a contradiction, I can assure you sir it is a perfectly normal thing to have both installed :ermm:
I already told you, I use Blender as my modeler and sculpting program, making models, sculpting morphs, we had this conversation just a few days back!




No, it's because someone in charge at "Industry Standard" headquarters has never implemented mouse recorded animation.  If they had, the industry standard "Professionals" would find themselves only reaching for a Curve Editor to tweak, not to animate.  This is because they would find the mouse a much better instrument for inputting motion, and guess why, it's cause a mouse is designed to read movement!

I'd have thought you'd learnt your lesson by now regards all that "Industry Standard" crap you keep talking.  You need to understand that something being "Industry Standard" does not mean it's the best, but you donlt seem to be able to grasp that.  Aren't you forgetting that the whole 3D industry now has to deal with implementing "Y-is-UP" controls, just because some "Industry Standard" manipulator thought it would be wise to go against a world-wide taught and accepted axis system.  Y is up, no matter what "Industry Standard" Maya users think.

The only reason you think like you do is because you've paid for "Industry Standard" training, you got taught the same way everyone else got taught (even though it's not the best way to animate).  So I tell you what, sw00000p, you stick to "Industry Standard" brainwashing, and I'll stick to pumeco standard, which is much more productive ;)




Oh really, well try kidding yourself of that if we ever do get mouse smoothing and a way to record each pass in a seperate layer!
Please, do let me know how you get on when you compare it :laugh::laugh::laugh:

Has anyone else noticed it is like a poorly animated version of The Bold and the Beautiful here? You can disappear for months, return and just take off where you left off. Rare for me to criticize Reallusion and if I take every app on my PC's as far as progress goes RL are flying ahead with each update and new version. That said if the iClone side of their wares is the main 3D animation hub and given the intended improvements in the render engine then the curve editor should really be part of the main software so it is a bit of a curly one. Maybe another feature to be added to the pipeline as a sweetener would have been a better option but that is just my opinion. Just like iC5 and 6 I will have to go with the pipeline but it would be nice to be able to use iClone 7 and your 3DXChange to you know, animate and render in house. 

is there any word on the CT9? or at least where does CT8 fit in here I had to go pipeline with that too. 

PS Hi swOOOp how is it hangin?



iC5 Pipeline, iC6 Pipeline, CTA2 Pipeline, CTA Pro, Crazy Talk, Facefilter, POP. 
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