Motion Curve Graph Editor: Pipeline only?

Motion Curve Graph Editor: Pipeline only?

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https://forum.reallusion.com/Topic303839.aspx

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By eternityblue - 9 Years Ago

Or so says the comparison chart on this page:

https://www.reallusion.com/event/iClone7-preorder/default.html

Please tell me this is just a typo.

By justaviking - 9 Years Ago

That's what the chart says. Your eyes lie not.

I guess Albembic export and Curve Graph Editor are assumed to be desired by "serious" users willing to pay for such things.

No more "basic" iClone (I assume the even the lowest flavor has full timeline editing), but it sure would be nice to drop the curve editor down one tier.

By eternityblue - 9 Years Ago

I really do think it is a big mistake if the motion graph editor is only for export users. But then, maybe it is something about how it is designed that leaves it kind of 'outside' the core iClone 7 functionality. It should be an animation tool, not just a cleanup one, and if there is only 'one version' of iClone 7 as the adverts say, then what is this then?

By eternityblue - 9 Years Ago

"iClone 7 is only available in one edition and includes all iClone 6 features."

Just sayin'.

By Rampa - 9 Years Ago

It'll be interesting to see if very many users would even use a graph editor. It is a very useful thing, but may be more complicated than many users really want to deal with.

The people who would use it are most likely to be the ones who would buy 3DX Pipeline anyway. That is, pros and advanced hobbyists.

By eternityblue - 9 Years Ago

Yeah, I dunno, graph editors are not terribly complicated, and make things easier, not harder. I just don't see the rationale, it isn't a pipeline feature, it is an animation tool. And an important one at that.

By eternityblue - 9 Years Ago

Just trying to be a polite but firm squeaky wheel here :-)

By Rampa - 9 Years Ago

Another way of saying basically the same thing, I guess, is that anyone who is dedicated to using a graph editor will have no problem paying for it. RL knows this! :)

Anyway, I hope it ends up being extremely useful for anyone who ends up getting it. I was kind of thinking back on tools that have been introduced (mainly in iC5) that just don't get much use. Ones that maybe ended up as kind of "meh!" for most people.

I also don't want to be defending, being righteous, or joining one camp or another. Just thinking back on what I have seen over the years.

By eternityblue - 9 Years Ago

Ok, well how about this then: perhaps the current interpolation settings could be revamped, more immediate and accessible, a toolbar icon perhaps, and a clearer graphical representation of what is being eased in/out etc so the tool that does exist is more accessible and effective? More Interpolation shapes like stutters and whatnot. Then a more complex graph 3ditor that accesses the whole time line would be for the pros. Thoughts? 7.1?

By eternityblue - 9 Years Ago

BTW my experience animating in Poser is it is 8mpossible without the graph editor, I hate poser 2014 and earlier at least regarding their dope sheet. It is literally painful for me to use.

By mtakerkart - 9 Years Ago

It's not a question about pro or hobbyist or user want to export....
If you want graph editor paye for it. Period. And I'm ok with that.
If I have to paye for Facial mocap , I will pay. Particles system? I will.
If all of this money could accelerate the process of Reallusion development , I will pay.
Reallusion lacks cruelly ressources to develop fast, so it's time to grow up.
There's lot of free software able to achieve professional result.
UDK , Unity,CryEngine own Royalties video game to grow up.But at the beginning it was payable.
May one day when we have to paye Royalties to Reallusion because we own over 100 K$ for a project
the game will be different.

By pumeco - 9 Years Ago

sw00000p (11/26/2016)

Indeed... it is NOT a tool for noobs.
...BUT worth learning.
Read and Practice.:)

Yup, after all, it could take as much as a whole minute to learn how to use one :Wow:
Hahaha, you noob :D

By eternityblue - 9 Years Ago

I'm curious how interpolation settings in iclone are handled when viewed in the graph editor. Does it incorporate them in its display?

By mtakerkart - 9 Years Ago

iClone 7 WON'T lack in RAPID - PRO animation.

Yes swoooop. Graphe editor would be since the 4th version. Users would have 4 years to learn it
till the 7 version. But all over the year Reallusion told us it was very complcated to develop.
PBR would be 2 years ago but clearly it was too expensive to develop... and so on.

By eternityblue - 9 Years Ago

I'm not quite sure I understand what you mean, nor that you understood me :) I simply mean, if I set an interpolation mode in iC7, or maybe more importantly, someone else sets the key that I'm collaborating with, or from an old project, then I look at it in Pipeline, how exactly will it then be represented,m without me touching it or converting it, will it be a useful display, or will working between these two tools cause some unforeseen headaches? I would hope it would be seamless. Anyhow, kinda moot for me I guess as I'll eventually buy Pipeline, but still, IMO iClone would be much better if it had it for all versions out of the box, if done well, I see no reason for it to be anywhere more complex to understand as the current interpolation tool, actually the graph editor would put the interpolations in a lot more context and make it easier to understand what is happening to what and when. So I'm just left with they left it out because they knew people would pay for it. I can disagree with the wisdom of that decision while still otherwise loving their product, I assume ;)

By pumeco - 9 Years Ago

eternityblue (11/26/2016)

I'm not bothered about a Graph Editor personally, I'm really not, cause I doubt I'd ever touch it anyway. But I agree it seems a bit ridiculous to restrict it to Pipeline. It should be in all versions of iClone simply because iClone is an "animation" program, and it should have had this ability long ago. If they wanted to make the Graph Editor a "Puller" for attracting users to Pipeline, I think they'd have been better off putting it in all versions, and just restricting advanced abilities of the Graph Editor to the Pipeline version, stuff that would effect people who want to work with games etc. But to keep it completely out of the other versions, the Graph Editor basics, that seems a bit of a shame more than anything because it's "iClone" that is supposed to be the animator, yet they're restricting this animation feature to those who want to export away from iClone - so the benefit is sent elsewhere for the most part :Wow:

All I want to see in the next video, is mouse smoothing, and the ability to record each pass on a separate layer.

By Rampa - 9 Years Ago

We already have "the basics", actually. That is what the existing curves are. Granted a continuous envelope along the entire track would probably help with visualizing it better. So yeah. The "non-advanced" version has been in iClone for a long time now. :P

By pumeco - 9 Years Ago

Sure thing, Ramps, that's what I told myself every time I saw people complaining that they had no curves!!!
Have these peasants never heard of the Ease-In and Ease-Out curves function, I used to ask myself :P

What I meant was that without any mouse smoothing, a basic Curve Editor would at least be useful for thinning-out and smoothing-out robotic mouse recordings.
A basic Curve Editor would even help ease the pain of not having multi-pass mouse recording going to separate layers.

Those two features I'm wanting (and would rather have than a Curve Editor anyday), I honestly don't think we have either of them, but we'll see.

By pumeco - 9 Years Ago

... but again, moaning aside, I just watched the video again and spotted the "Film Aspect Ratio" control :w00t::D
It is times like these that ones mind goes into meltdown, such conflicting emotions ...

By Rampa - 9 Years Ago

pumeco (11/26/2016)

It always takes a few viewings, and there are always goodies hidden in the UI panels. That's for sure! :)

By mtakerkart - 9 Years Ago

the need of curve editor is not for the ease/smooth/interpolation . We had that since a long time.
Curve editor is to have access to x,y,z translation and x,y,z rotation SEPARATELY AND NOT IN ONE TRACK!!!!!

By justaviking - 9 Years Ago

In my opinion, the graph editor seems misplaced.

I certainly understand it being a premium feature, but in my view it should be one tier (level/bundle/package) below Pipeline.

To me, Pipeline is for people who want to export assets for use in non-iClone applications, often by other people. That market would have a lot of focus on game developers.

Movie makers never need their assets to leave their computer, as they only export the movie. (I'm ignoring "production teams" for the moment.) A person making a movie will certainly benefit from the graph editor. In my opinion (which is worth very little to Reallusion), you should not need a Pipeline license in order to have access to the graph editor.

Lastly, as Animagic has eloquently pointed out, based on past experience with Reallusion, there is room for some corrections (possibly) and clarifications (certainly) to the limited, initial publication of the marketing material for iClone 7.

By Rampa - 9 Years Ago

There are some possible tricks that will give you smoothing when puppeteering with the mouse, but a graph editor really is not it.

You could try setting your mouse speed to super slow before capturing. This should allow for a slower, smoother movement of your wrist, and thus less jumpiness. The next step would be to thin the data. Squish the clip out to twice as short and recapture it using the direct puppet without recording anything new. Now stretch it back to normal length. That should give you a less dense stream of points to work with.

Mouse puppeteering is tricky to do well.

By eternityblue - 9 Years Ago

:rolleyes: whatever. I'll just let it go.

By pumeco - 9 Years Ago

@Rampa
Yup, I plan a very thorough play'n'pause session on that video today, see what else there is, see what I've missed.

Will have to play with your suggestions for mouse smoothing, but we shouldn't have to do that, the feature should have been there over a decade ago now. Anyway, if you hear a lot of shouting and screaming later today, don't worry, it just means I've spotted smoothing controls for the mouse while examining the video :D

@Dennis
Totally agree, and to be honest I'm beginning to think what Job said about typos could well be the case here. Before, we had a version of iClone that didn't have timeline features, but that version has gone now so maybe they intended to do the same sort of thing with the Curve Edtor, as in only the most basic version of iClone doesn't have it. Not only that, I've always assumed "Pipeline" is so-called due to it's nature of being able to sit in a Pipeline due to it's extra export features. That makes perfect sense, but a Curve Editor has everything to do with animation (and therefore iClone), and nothing at all to do with a Pipeline.

A Curve Editor is certainly "misplaced" being Pipeline only as you put it.

@sw00000p
Not all dedicated animation software does, and that is our point, because iClone doesn't. It shoves everything into one track as Marc pointed out, and it does the same when recording each pass using the motion and mouse tools. It's great being able to record one pass at a time, but it's severely limited by the fact that it does not record to separate layers while doing that. Stop making excuses, it's ridiculous, and it's not like it would be rocket science to implement, either. All they need to do is make it record to a seperate track each time, as long as you've enabled multi-layer recording. Technically, it would still work the same as it does now, it's still recording to a track (only it automatically creates a new track to record to this time). That's the only difference, so I don't see the point in keeping this insanely powerful and easy to implement feature from us. The feature not being there, just like no mouse smooting, is incomprehensibly ridiculous for a product such as this.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not being mean, and I will buy iClone anyway if I can, they've even given it the Anamorphic abilities I was desperately hoping for and I'm incredibly grateful to them for that, so I want to support them. To implement something like Anamorphic abilities means they understood why it would be needed in a program like iClone (even though hardly anyone even knows what it is). So it just makes it all the more puzzling why mouse smoothing and recording to seperate tracks weren't already implemented years ago, because they're incredibly important and obviously needed in iClone due to it's design and the way it works!

It's as crazy as haivng a car with a steering wheel that cannot be steered to go where you want it to :Wow:

By RobertoColombo - 9 Years Ago

My thinking on tools to improve the editing stage of the animation: everything depends on what the IC7 API I/F allows us to do.
Imagine the most powerful scenario where:

1. the API I/F makes it possible to "touch", in real-time (i.e. modification are immediately applied), every animation parameters (i.e. X/Y/Z for translation, rotation, etc.).
2. the API I/F makes it possible to build a real-time GUI

Then, every prospective to see this or that ever-dreamt tool might become real.
I am quite curious about how much can we do with the IC7 APIs

Roberto

By pumeco - 9 Years Ago

@Roberto
I hope RL make as much functionality available as possible to those of you who can program this stuff, and it sounds like there's two options for coding custom stuff cause there's that API thing you mention and there's a Custom Shader feature as well. I'd love to be able to program Custom Shaders but I recall when I looked into it before, it was very math heavy and I hate math!

And if you saw my programming skills, you'll understand that the last time I tried it was on the good old Commodore 64 :

10 PRINT "Hello there,"
20 PRINT "Peasant Master!"
30 GOTO 10
RUN

Ah ... crap ... this must be one of those "loops" they warned me about ... :Wow:

@sw00000p
You seem to be forgetting something VERY important here, I said iClone does not have this.
They have added this feature to 3DXchange Pipeline, not iClone :Wow:

And either way, it is no excuse for not having that other stuff!

By pumeco - 9 Years Ago

sw00000p, you can't keep using that same tactic of saying I can't use Blender, just to get around what was written :doze:
What you keep saying there just isn't true, as was explained time and time again!

The only reason I'm not going to use Blender with iClone for animation purposes is because I don't like jumping between programs :Wow:
If I were intending to animate in Blender, I'd be using Blender's super-poweful animation toolset!

By pumeco - 9 Years Ago

sw00000p (11/27/2016)

pumeco (11/27/2016)

...The only reason I'm not going to use Blender with iClone for animation purposes is because I don't like jumping between programs :Wow:

If that were true, why did you install Blender and iClone?
A contradiction.... big time!:w00t:

No if about it sw00000p, it's true, and it's not a contradiction, I can assure you sir it is a perfectly normal thing to have both installed :ermm:
I already told you, I use Blender as my modeler and sculpting program, making models, sculpting morphs, we had this conversation just a few days back!

sw00000p (11/27/2016)

Does Blender have your "Mouth Smoothing" tools?? NO!
Why?
...because it is NOT the Standard Industry approach to animating.

No, it's because someone in charge at "Industry Standard" headquarters has never implemented mouse recorded animation. If they had, the industry standard "Professionals" would find themselves only reaching for a Curve Editor to tweak, not to animate. This is because they would find the mouse a much better instrument for inputting motion, and guess why, it's cause a mouse is designed to read movement!

I'd have thought you'd learnt your lesson by now regards all that "Industry Standard" crap you keep talking. You need to understand that something being "Industry Standard" does not mean it's the best, but you donlt seem to be able to grasp that. Aren't you forgetting that the whole 3D industry now has to deal with implementing "Y-is-UP" controls, just because some "Industry Standard" manipulator thought it would be wise to go against a world-wide taught and accepted axis system. Y is up, no matter what "Industry Standard" Maya users think.

The only reason you think like you do is because you've paid for "Industry Standard" training, you got taught the same way everyone else got taught (even though it's not the best way to animate). So I tell you what, sw00000p, you stick to "Industry Standard" brainwashing, and I'll stick to pumeco standard, which is much more productive ;)

sw00000p (11/27/2016)

....(Instead of Mouse Smoothing) :pinch:

Oh really, well try kidding yourself of that if we ever do get mouse smoothing and a way to record each pass in a seperate layer!
Please, do let me know how you get on when you compare it :laugh::laugh::laugh:

By Lawsuit Pending Records - 9 Years Ago

Has anyone else noticed it is like a poorly animated version of The Bold and the Beautiful here? You can disappear for months, return and just take off where you left off. Rare for me to criticize Reallusion and if I take every app on my PC's as far as progress goes RL are flying ahead with each update and new version. That said if the iClone side of their wares is the main 3D animation hub and given the intended improvements in the render engine then the curve editor should really be part of the main software so it is a bit of a curly one. Maybe another feature to be added to the pipeline as a sweetener would have been a better option but that is just my opinion. Just like iC5 and 6 I will have to go with the pipeline but it would be nice to be able to use iClone 7 and your 3DXChange to you know, animate and render in house.

is there any word on the CT9? or at least where does CT8 fit in here I had to go pipeline with that too.

PS Hi swOOOp how is it hangin?

By pumeco - 9 Years Ago

sw00000p (11/28/2016)

[quote]You see where pumeco says, "I don't like bouncing between programs"
and states, "I user Blender to do model, sculpt... and then I user iClone for this and that.
pumeco will bounce between programs, despite the blatant contradiction.:P

No, I won't bounce between programs, and again, this was already explained to you a few days back. All of that making models and sculpting stuff gets done before I start, so it's barely different in that respect than going out and finding models and morphs for a movie project, before starting work on it. The only difference is I'm not buying them before I start, I'm making them before I start.

Please, tell my you grasp it this time, sw00000p :Whistling:
You're an "Industry Standard Professional" now, remember, so this stuff ought to be be dead easy for someone "LIKE YOU" to grasp!

- Any other thoughts?
- Do you enjoy being proved wrong all the time?
- Is the sky blue today where you are?

I gots some sunshine :w00t::w00t::w00t:

By pumeco - 9 Years Ago

sw00000p (11/28/2016)

Lets see:
1. Blender to 3dxchnage = Bounce
2. 3dxchnage to iClone = Bounce
and / or
3. CC to .... = Bounce
To use iClone with custom content... "You MUST bounce between programs."

OMG ... sw00000p ... how many more times ... all that bouncing stuff is done BEFORE the actual moviemaking gets started in iClone!
Surely you must know what "BEFORE" means :blink:

By pumeco - 9 Years Ago

@Johnny
No no no, sw00000p is not a sh*t-stirrer, he's just a sw00000p :w00t:

In all honesty, I love our conversations, and the funniest thing of all is that no matter how things turn out, I cannot lose, and he hasn't figured-out why yet. Sw00000p loves to make out like I'm a talentless wannabe animator, who can't even rig a pair of boobies in Blender. Whether this be true or not, I've found that sw00000p will still have his own mental picture of the situation and go with that regardless. No here's the funny part ... cause let's say iClone 7 had arrived and I'd finally got around to making a movie with it, and I put it up in the Showcase Forum on here. It might blow sw00000p's mind by how good it is. But then again, if you consider the sort of questions I've asked on here over time, I'm probably even worse than he thinks I am - I could be laughably bad and just playing a game with him, pretending to be able to produce something cool.

And here's the thing ... if it turns out I'm laughably bad, I'm guaranteed to enjoy sw00000p's opinion anyway cause maybe I don't care about being a talentless animator :D
So I could be, or I could not be, and that's why it's amusing, because sw00000p seems to think it matters to me either way ... :D

By pumeco - 9 Years Ago

sw00000p (11/28/2016)

I enjoy this educated dialog.

Me too, sw00000p, love it :cool:

By Lawsuit Pending Records - 9 Years Ago

pumeco (11/28/2016)

On the bright side at least your crappy animations will have a much better render quality and all the other members will be able to discredit and ridicule your efforts in full PBR glory. You will have the 'It's not my fault, I was distracted by all the bouncing' as a partial excuse so all is not lost. Last time I tried to rig some boobies in blender they ended up feet on the following character I was building, so I must be really scraping the bottom of the barrel with my skills.

I think we could all agree there is worse than swOOOp around.
They are all in jail, but still..............

By pumeco - 9 Years Ago

I know how you feel, Johnny, it's always a bummer not being able to rig boobies :(

Maybe we should just do what sw00000p does, he might be a lot smarter than we think, cause he did a boob-based video and never had any technical problems with them at all.
I think the trick is to not rig them at all, as demonstrated here in sw00000p's iClone video ...

By Lawsuit Pending Records - 9 Years Ago

Oh I can rig boobies. As a workaround I made a couple of little tin caps in Shade3D so my characters don't suffer gravel rash to the nipples. Technically it was multiple bounces inside and outside of iClone with the added click and drag behind functionality. We all have to start somewhere, we were all newbies once. I have been a newbie for close to a decade and I am starting to think it is not fair because they keep shifting the goalposts.

By pumeco - 9 Years Ago

@Johnny
Well as the tin caps actually worked, doesn't matter how you did it mate :cool:

Looks like I'm going to have to spend some time setting-up a custom figure in 3DXchange, just so that I can have more Spring Bones by putting extra ones where I want them, upper-arms, thighs etc. I still can't imagine why on earth Reallusion neglected to put Spring Bones in those places by default, cause they already have the system in place and it's being used on the Spring Bones that they did include. Just doesn't make sense to me at all, especially as Spring Bone dynamics seem to be free in terms of the computing resources required for them and can be individually disables anyway!

I haven't tried it yet, but it looks like I'm going to have to do that because I think it's the only way the women are going to stop looking solid in iClone. Now normally, I would ask sw00000p to post a step-by-step demonstration on how to do this, or better still, a video on how to do it using the tools I have (Blender and 3DXchange). But as we both know, sw00000p does not appeear to know the meaning of a clear, uninterupted step-by-step guide. He has a habit of turning the process into a Max promotion, and starts getting away from the whole point of it, which just makes it confusing, not helpful :Wow:

It's probably not hard to do at all, but it always helps if there's a step-by-step.

sw00000p
I never said the figure wasn't rigged, I said the boobies weren't :Whistling:

By Lawsuit Pending Records - 9 Years Ago

I just spent 12 months solid trying to improve my skills and went out my way not to buy anything where possible as far as content(not easy). I didn't save any cash though because I kept adding the tools for the job, but I managed to hone my Daz,CC and Poser characters, clothing etc but I prefer props. I think clothing is the toughest mongrel. I reckon given another 20 years I might get the hang of this crap or die trying, but I have come to the conclusion if you want something then you have to get off your @ss and do it yourself. One thing I can say after all of this is next time I am giving someone 10, 20 or 40 bucks for their wares I know they have earnt it.

Still a WIP and not a Poser prop but I am pretty happy with my Copper Chopper so far. Up top of page. Copper Chopper

By colour - 9 Years Ago

Wot's a Curve Editor, then, if this ain't one?
Pinhead needs to know.

https://forum.reallusion.com/uploads/images/49ffe018-77a1-43f9-b1cd-a0c8.jpg

By eternityblue - 9 Years Ago

No, that's not a curve editor. Well, technically it edits the interpolation between keyframes and yes, it is related to curves, but no, not what we are talking about. Take a look at Blender's curve editor.

By colour - 9 Years Ago

Wot's a Curve Editor, then, if this ain't one?
Pinhead needs to know.

By mtakerkart - 9 Years Ago

As I said , curve editor in Iclone is to have access to x,y,z translation and x,y,z rotation on separate tracks, NOT only one merged track.
The easy in/out edit was in Iclone for loooong time ago. I'm not talking about Quaternon, bezier, cubic, etc....interpolation because it's an
another story.

By eternityblue - 9 Years Ago

Ok, I'm on phone and haven't actually watched this, but it should show you, and it is short.

By animagic - 9 Years Ago

Lawsuit Pending Records (11/29/2016)

Still a WIP and not a Poser prop but I am pretty happy with my Copper Chopper so far. Up top of page. Copper Chopper

I think your Chopper looks great!

As far as clothing goes, I thought it would be easier using CC, but for me it's a hurdle with all that's needed additionally. Also, I've never made real clothes either...:unsure:

By pumeco - 9 Years Ago

@Johnny
Very nice work on the model, I'm not surprised it took a fair amount of time to make, lot of detail, and I agree wholeheartedly, if you want something doing right, get off your ass and do it yourself.
That's kinda the way I'm looking at it only it's more a case of "Wait to see if Reallusion implement it, and if not, do it yourself" ...

I'll wait until we see the next promo video, cause if anything, I suppose any Spring Bone or Dynamics stuff could be mentioned in that one if there is any.

By eternityblue - 9 Years Ago

I think clothing is CC is pretty easy, as long as the UV is clear. In Blender, I use Blender Sensei and their Draw Mesh tool, it makes creating custom stuff pretty easy and I'm just learning. I haven't tried a long dress or pants yet, but I suspect the tricky bit is more weight painting than creating the actual mesh.

I highly recommend Blender Sensei and Zero Brush, BS is free and ZB I think is $50 or so. But it makes for a nice modeling studio for creating stuff for iClone; there is a whole video series from the developer on using Blender with his tool, which IMO is better than scouring YouTube for tutorials are varying quality. His are concise and clear. Blender Sense IMO makes Blender a lot easier to handle.

By colour - 9 Years Ago

eternityblue (11/29/2016)

Ok, I'm on phone and haven't actually watched this, but it should show you, and it is short.

Thanks for the Video clarification, blue. :)

By pumeco - 9 Years Ago

colour (11/29/2016)

Wot's a Curve Editor, then, if this ain't one?
Pinhead needs to know.

Hey, Pinhead!

The feature you enquire about is indeed a type of curve editor, it's designed like that because Reallusion know how to make iClone accessible and hands on, it's the sort of design decision that makes me enjoy using iClone. It not only has selectable curves, but custom ones as well, and can even be applied to timewarp! That system, right there, is the correct system for iClone and I don't have any problems getting any type of movement I want out of it. The only thing I wish for is the ability to smooth the mouse recordings and record them into seperate tracks on each pass, because that, coupled with the hands-on system you point out, is the perfect way to animate in iClone!

If Reallusion still fail to deliver those essentials in iClone7, then I'm guessing some lucky API developer has a potential goldmine on their hands ;)

But yup, if it wasn't for the feature you enquire about being implemented (which first arrived in iClone4), then I would never have purchased iClone (seriously). I used to watch the videos created previous and they all suffered from that break-dancing effect due to not having that feature (no acceleration or deceleration). But when they implemented it, that changed everything, it's one of those small and seemingly insignificant features that make or break the programs ability (just like mouse smoothing and the ability to record each pass to a seperate layer do).

By Lawsuit Pending Records - 9 Years Ago

Thanks animagic and pumeco I enjoy making props and characters. Today is my last day at Renderosity which will increase my time significantly for all these projects that end up on hold for months on end.

I would like to see RL make a Cloth Creator as a addon to Character Creator. I think we all know they could nail this and do it on their ear. Something with cut, shape, pleat etc etc and a plugin for Filter Forge/ Photoshop. Be the holy grail for many users and I am guessing could add quite a few more to their nest.

@swOOOp I hope that last comment you put was clearly to enlighten colour and not distract us from tin t*ts

By JIX - 9 Years Ago

Yes, if he teaches us, that´s much better than nothing but hot air.

By animagic - 9 Years Ago

ON TOPIC!

The Curve Editor will now be available as a separate plugin for IC7. It's paid, but if you don't need Pipeline it will most likely be cheaper than buying IC7 + 3DX7 Pipeline.

See here: https://www.reallusion.com/event/iClone7-preorder/default.html#edition-comparison.

By mtakerkart - 9 Years Ago

@Animagic

I think you need pipeline even curve editor is a plugin regarding the chart comparison.
Am I wrong?

By wires - 9 Years Ago

If the wording in the description is correct then 3DXchange Pipeline is not required:

** Motion Curve Graph Editor (Plug-in):

Motion Curve Graph Editor is a plug-in for iClone 7
This plug-in will be available when iClone 7.1 releases
This will be a paid plug-in for iClone 7. (price will be announced when available)
The plug-in will be included as a free bonus for any purchase of iClone 7 & 3DXchange 7 Pipeline bundles

However the text for 3DXchange Pipeline in the Comparison Chart seems to say something very different:

https://forum.reallusion.com/uploads/images/bea86824-4f5a-4a8e-a7a8-7831.png

It's Friday again, so I guess we'll have to wait until Monday for clarification on this one.

By JIX - 9 Years Ago

mtakerkart (02.12.2016)

@Animagic

I think you need pipeline even curve editor is a plugin regarding the chart comparison.
Am I wrong?

I guess, you are wrong. Just read the footer.

By mtakerkart - 9 Years Ago

But the plugin is in the pipeline column.... not in the pro version.

By Peter (RL) - 9 Years Ago

mtakerkart (12/2/2016)

@Animagic

I think you need pipeline even curve editor is a plugin regarding the chart comparison.
Am I wrong?

The Motion Curve Graph Editor will be available as an add-on paid plugin for those without 3DXchange 7 Pipeline and FREE for those who have 3DXchange 7 Pipeline. As you probably know there will be only one version of iClone 7 unlike previous versions but you will be able to add additional functionality via optional plugins.

By mtakerkart - 9 Years Ago

Thank you Peter.
I just made a refound this morning about my pre-order to buy the pipeline version...
Useless move. But it's ok I will buy the pipeline version regardless :)

By wires - 9 Years Ago

Peter (RL) (12/2/2016)

mtakerkart (12/2/2016)

@Animagic

I think you need pipeline even curve editor is a plugin regarding the chart comparison.
Am I wrong?

Thanks for the clarification Peter, it makes things a lot easier regarding purchase options. :cool:

By eternityblue - 9 Years Ago

So, will Pipeline be getting other bundled plugins for free as well? Or is this a sort of promotion for this one plugin only? I wonder what the timeline is before 7.1 drops as well.

By justaviking - 9 Years Ago

Interesting plug-in news.

And good to know graph editor will be in 7.1 and not 7.0. A mild disappointment of course, but good to know.

New questions:

A) What is the price of the graph editor plug-in relative to Pipeline? If the difference is small, might as well get Pipeline just in case. But if significant savings, maybe opt out of Pipeline, buy the plug-in, and save some cash.

B) How many other things will become plug-is that we can buy a la carte?

I am okay having the option to get pieces individually . I assume they will not look or feel like a separate application. just like with Alembic export and Indigo plug-in are correctly implemented today, you do it within iClione. Opens up all sorts of bundie and package options for Reallusion . Could make upgrading to next version (iC8) interesting though, as bundles change..

By Lawsuit Pending Records - 9 Years Ago

I agree justaviking it is good news to hear about when it arrives and the options.

By JIX - 9 Years Ago

I think, due to that upcoming WIP 3 video, there will be some more plug-ins (beside the Curve Editor) available soon. Peter also used the term "batch".

It seems the Head Creator will be offered as a plug-in in future as well, but not in the "first batch".

Really curious about that "first batch plug-ins", because it could extend the feature list noticeably, or even dramatically.