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IC6 Rendering Quality options

Posted By RobertoColombo 11 Years Ago
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justaviking
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Posted 11 Years Ago
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animagic (2/28/2015)
One advantage that regular film has is motion blur. When a propeller moves at high speed you don't really see the individual blades, but more something like a whirling disk. A few members who have been working a movies involving propeller aircraft, actually use some thing like a disk to simulate the fast speed effect.

Motion blur would be a great addition to iClone.  It has been requested more than once.



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animagic
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@rgreenidge: I understand what you mean by the rotation issue and that is indeed a case where frame rate does have an influence as to the end result.

This is not a typical iClone problem by the way. Even in regular movies, if you have say a bunch of speeding up wagons, it sometimes looks as if the wheels slow down and then even start turning in the opposite direction.

If the frame rate is 30 fps and you have a wheel with spokes for example and it takes 1/30 of second for the wheel to turn the radial distance between two spokes, the wheel seems to stand still when you view the footage. At 25 fps, you will have 1/25 of a second between two frames, so the next spoke will have rotated past the position of the previous one, giving you the impression of a rotation.

The same could obviously be the case with a propeller, giving the impression that it stands still at a particular frame rate. The only remedy is to change the animation.

One advantage that regular film has is motion blur. When a propeller moves at high speed you don't really see the individual blades, but more something like a whirling disk. A few members who have been working a movies involving propeller aircraft, actually use some thing like a disk to simulate the fast speed effect.


https://forum.reallusion.com/uploads/images/436b0ffd-1242-44d6-a876-d631.jpg

rgreenidge
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animagic (2/5/2015)
Many times already it has been explained that the internal frame rate of iClone is 60 fps. iClone should probably make that invisible for some users to end this discussion....

I have used iClone since 1.52, and it has never bothered me. I've given up explaining the reason for the 60 fps; lookfor my posts elsewhere. I think in time, not in frames. That way it doesn't matter whether I render at 24 fps, 25 fps, or 30 fps; it always comes out right.

Backto rendering quality; I find that more interesting.


Animagic you stated on here that you frame rates have not shown any difference in your projects when you render. I would agree with you 100% but there is a exception to the rule. Have you used or experimented with all the props with animation like tank treads and the jet engine? As I stated before if I use 30 or 60 fps, my engine blades donot appear to rotate, because the engine is rotating but for some reason at 30 and 60 fps mpg, avi, the rendering engine draws the blades in the same position every frame and that gives an appearance that it is not moving. The only way I can render the video to show the blades are moving is when I use the 20 or 25 fps with the AVI output. A few days ago I strung together a few clips and put them together with Magix. For the scenes with the jet engine I rendered that clip at 25 fps in AVI (HD), and all the rest in mp4. I put them all together in Magix, with final rendition of mp4 and 60 fps. Everything works fine as long as my engine scenes is rendered in iClone at any frame rate other that 30 or 60 fps. So unless someone can give me an explanation of why a prop bought through Reallusion does not render right at the default settings once it is put to the video and the only way it works is by changing the frame rate of the video render, what you say is not 100 true, and needs to be added as a exception. And that probably goes for the tank threads too. As of right now I can say rendering a video in other frame rates does not make a difference in most cases except with some moving props. this is the prop I'm speaking of: Product Name: D032F Jet Nozzel. The fan blades rotate when it is turned on. You see it rotating while editing, when it is rendering; but not in the final videos that were done at 30 or 60 fps. When I rendered at 25 fps, nothing in the rest of the video changed, you're 100% right. Only now my engine blades are turning in the videos. I don't have a problem with this I can mix avi's with mp4, I don't see a difference there either. I just want you to make a note that frame rates don't matter, but certain movable props may have a synching problem at 30 0r 60. I'm not asking you to buy the engine, but it would be nice to for you to see what I'm talking about or the tank threads a guy was complaining it wasn't moving on the final video.

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lkelemen
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I have the crash too when I switch on super sampling and HQ shadow.
I didn't find any traces that RL knows about this. Where did you see that?

Lajos
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iClone "productions" barely need "heavily composited and edited" footages, yet once you correctly handle the use of proxies it becomes much more manageable at this level.

DaVinci and Fusion are high-end tools indeed but have a steeper learning curve, yet, you won't find certain effects you have native in HitFilm unless you buy expensive plugins from third parties.

For indies and hobbyists who want a simple yet powerful 3 in 1 post-production tool to master and to use aside iClone, I honestly recommend Hitfilm.

Anyway, one just has to try the demo version and compare (and watch the video tutorials).

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wires
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hattori kun (2/8/2015)
.......Davinci resolve and Fusion from blackmagic is free and its been used in highend productions. Extremely powerful tools.

And both have learning curves way off on the far side of being fun. :w00t:

Gerry



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hattori kun
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I wouldn't go with hitfilm honestly. I've been using it for two months and its pretty sluggish handling heavily composited and edited footage.
Davinci resolve and Fusion from blackmagic is free and its been used in highend productions. Extremely powerful tools.
Draian63
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@grabiller
Now what I do is take the shoot as best as possbile in iClone, with my limits not the software's, and then move in Hitfilm as if it were a traditional 2D film footage... for visual effects and etc etc...
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Draian63 (2/7/2015)
grabiller (2/4/2015)
My advices on these issues:

- always render image sequences (you shouldn't have any audio sync issue if you set the same FPS at render time and when you create a avi, mov, etc.. from those images). I understand peoples want to see an immediate result by rendering directly to a video file, but if you render long sequences like you, then it is always a risk of having to redo it many times until it "doesn't crash" - and it is not always iClone specific, there may be codecs issues as well, as codecs can crash too).

- even with all the iClone "high" quality switches turned on, you wont get proper anti-aliasing of your images nor your shadows. That's just a fact. To have a decent quality, try to render at 8192xXXX, then resize those images after rendering to your original size (photoshop batch, etc..) then make your movie of it. You may be surprised how much more quality you can get from doing this. The default 3x3 super sampling is not enough (yet it is "super sampling", not "multi sampling", which is lower quality than multi sampling at the same rate because the samples are always "centered" in the pixel). Yet, 3x3, that is 9 samples, is not enough, 16 is considered a bare minimum - in general - so by rendering at 8192xXXX you get 5x5 that is 25 samples per pixel, which is much better.You should at least consider rendering at 4096 to have at least 4x4/16 samples per pixel. That is, if your final rendering is at ~2K (Full HD, ..). It will be slower to render of course, but try it at least once, just in order to see the gain in quality you cant get. Then you decide.


Thx a lot for your great advice... and I like Hitfilm for it's ability to do what AE does for much less a price both in money and time doing the VFX...

You're welcome. Hitfilm is really the indie (not so) secret weapon of choice. And it would be a must if iClone/3DXchange could export 3d data to HitFilm, at least the camera ;)

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guy rabiller | GOETZIWOOD STUDIOS
"N.O.E." (Nations Of Earth) Sci-Fi TV Show, Showrunner.

Draian63
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grabiller (2/4/2015)
My advices on these issues:

- always render image sequences (you shouldn't have any audio sync issue if you set the same FPS at render time and when you create a avi, mov, etc.. from those images). I understand peoples want to see an immediate result by rendering directly to a video file, but if you render long sequences like you, then it is always a risk of having to redo it many times until it "doesn't crash" - and it is not always iClone specific, there may be codecs issues as well, as codecs can crash too).

- even with all the iClone "high" quality switches turned on, you wont get proper anti-aliasing of your images nor your shadows. That's just a fact. To have a decent quality, try to render at 8192xXXX, then resize those images after rendering to your original size (photoshop batch, etc..) then make your movie of it. You may be surprised how much more quality you can get from doing this. The default 3x3 super sampling is not enough (yet it is "super sampling", not "multi sampling", which is lower quality than multi sampling at the same rate because the samples are always "centered" in the pixel). Yet, 3x3, that is 9 samples, is not enough, 16 is considered a bare minimum - in general - so by rendering at 8192xXXX you get 5x5 that is 25 samples per pixel, which is much better.You should at least consider rendering at 4096 to have at least 4x4/16 samples per pixel. That is, if your final rendering is at ~2K (Full HD, ..). It will be slower to render of course, but try it at least once, just in order to see the gain in quality you cant get. Then you decide.


Thx a lot for your great advice... and I like Hitfilm for it's ability to do what AE does for much less a price both in money and time doing the VFX...

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