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AutoDidact
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AutoDidact
Posted Last Year
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Group: Forum Members
Last Active: 3 hours ago
Posts: 2.1K,
Visits: 13.6K
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I was not really talking about paid or free add-ons but thinking more in terms of standalone software (such as Anima). That is my point in agreeing with you that there is a limit to the market “sorting things out”. Because it is my assertion that no matter the number of alternatives (even at affordable prices), entrenched habits, familiarity and the eco system comfort bubble seems to impose a hard limit on the number of users who will actually leave entirely to the point of literally reducing your marketshare.
Of course this is not to imply that Reallusion made some lazy choice based on having a “captive” user base
(as many software makers like Daz have done TBH) In fact I would speculate that the limitation in this MD system is likely some technical limitation of the core software architecture that they may have determined to be too cost prohibitive to overcome, just to implement one new feature.
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Nirwana
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Group: Forum Members
Last Active: Last Month
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As far as “affordable alternatives” goes the price is not always the deciding in factor
When I was talking about "affordable alternatives" to Anima and iClone that was primarily to exclude high-end (proprietary) programs such as those used by major film studios on movies like LOTR to animate battle scenes with thousands of "actors". Also, while the Blender add-on looks interesting, I was not really talking about paid or free add-ons but thinking more in terms of standalone software (such as Anima) or the crowd feature being included in the main application (as in iClone).
My YouTube channel: Animations made with Cinema 4D and Reallusion Products
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AutoDidact
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AutoDidact
Posted Last Year
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Group: Forum Members
Last Active: 3 hours ago
Posts: 2.1K,
Visits: 13.6K
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Apart from Anima (which I payed for for a number of years but never really used), I'm not aware of any other "crowd simulation" software that is affordable. Therefore, I'm not sure if the market will sort this out in terms of crowd sims for sheer lack of competition. .
Well crowd simulation ,IMHO, always seemed more of a “special effect” than a standard character animation feature. As far as “affordable alternatives” goes the price is not always the deciding in factor But it is the Ecosystem comfort bubble that makes people effectively limit their options voluntarily due to not wanting to endure the vicissitudes of exporting to other programs etc. This is understandable and a factor preventing even affordable crowd alternatives
such as this $13 Dollar Blender procedural system from being any real threat to Reallusion.
That said I certainly understand the expressed frustration of having a native iclone crowd system
but it is not compatible with ALL NATIVE iclone motions by default.
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Nirwana
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Group: Forum Members
Last Active: Last Month
Posts: 242,
Visits: 1.5K
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But... the market will sort things out.
Apart from Anima (which I payed for for a number of years but never really used), I'm not aware of any other "crowd simulation" software that is affordable. Therefore, I'm not sure if the market will sort this out in terms of crowd sims for sheer lack of competition.
That being said, if I did something with "crowds" I'd probably do it in my main 3DCC (Cinema 4D). As I'm not a fan of the look of ActorScan and ActorBuild characters, I'd prefer to use regular CC3+ characters for crowds as well and I'm not sure if and how iClone would be able to manage that.
It sounds as if you are unhappy with at least how they run their rewards programs
Yep, I'm not too happy about the Elite program having been canceled (I also opened a thread about that last year: Elite Program is not being renewed for 2024).
As far as the Riot pack is concerned, I'll probably wait another 5 weeks and see if they offer any new motion pack during that time and perhaps get it by the end of March.
My YouTube channel: Animations made with Cinema 4D and Reallusion Products
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Kelleytoons
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Kelleytoons
Posted Last Year
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Group: Forum Members
Last Active: Last Year
Posts: 9.2K,
Visits: 22.1K
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Nirwana (2/21/2024)
[quote]At the very least this pack should have been half the price - I think that ANY pack that has motions in it without the corresponding MD motions should be
BTW: Since Reallusion seems to cooperate with other studios for the mocap packs, it seems to me that that these other studios would need to be willing and capable of providing MD versions as well, so whether or not there are MD motions may be out of Reallusion's hands to some extent.
This is the problem I have with RL in general - if they had had a decent beta of MD (which they did not - and I know this for a fact) it would have been VERY apparent we needed a way to create the motions ourselves. So now they've compounded the issue by continuing to make that impossible and thus, with no tool to do this, they painted themselves into a corner as you've pointed out. It's now a MUCH bigger issue with the crowd stuff since folks will assume these motions can be used (I sure did and I know a whole lot about how this stuff works - even the tutorials do not make it clear and Kai is normally VERY forthcoming about such things. But they gloss over that and I have to believe it's not due to ignorance). If they want to compete - and they DO want to compete - these are missteps that just can't continue. But... the market will sort things out. It sounds as if you are unhappy with at least how they run their rewards programs so that's still another thing they aren't doing right. I don't want RL to go away but things like this make me think they won't be around much longer.
Alienware Aurora R16, Win 11, i9-149000KF, 3.20GHz CPU, 64GB RAM, RTX 4090 (24GB), Samsung 870 Pro 8TB, Gen3 MVNe M-2 SSD, 4TBx2, 39" Alienware Widescreen Monitor
Mike "ex-genius" Kelley
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Nirwana
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Group: Forum Members
Last Active: Last Month
Posts: 242,
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At the very least this pack should have been half the price - I think that ANY pack that has motions in it without the corresponding MD motions should be heavily discounted
Well, it would be nice to have MD motions but since I have never actually used Motion Director in a project (just tested a character walking around with a game controller), I would not be really interested in paying more just to have MD motions included (so far, the MD additions were free when you purchased the corresponding basic motion pack). It is my understand that the crowd features in MD are supposed to be used with low-poly characters If you are looking to see the Riot pack discounted, just wait. It is just a matter of time until it will be discounted more than the introductory discount. and I've bought EVERYTHING in the past
Well, I did not buy everything from the Content Store but I bought quite a lot (for a four-figure dollar amount every year). That has pretty much dried up since the Elite program was retired at the beginning of this year. BTW: Since Reallusion seems to cooperate with other studios for the mocap packs, it seems to me that that these other studios would need to be willing and capable of providing MD versions as well, so whether or not there are MD motions may be out of Reallusion's hands to some extent.
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Kelleytoons
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Kelleytoons
Posted Last Year
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Group: Forum Members
Last Active: Last Year
Posts: 9.2K,
Visits: 22.1K
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Except that they show scenes which would be almost IMPOSSIBLE to achieve for us mortals without the crowd features. At the very least this pack should have been half the price - I think that ANY pack that has motions in it without the corresponding MD motions should be heavily discounted (but at least I know that I won't be buying it - and I've bought EVERYTHING in the past. They don't need to lose too many customers before RL starts really hurting).
Alienware Aurora R16, Win 11, i9-149000KF, 3.20GHz CPU, 64GB RAM, RTX 4090 (24GB), Samsung 870 Pro 8TB, Gen3 MVNe M-2 SSD, 4TBx2, 39" Alienware Widescreen Monitor
Mike "ex-genius" Kelley
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argus1000
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argus1000
Posted Last Year
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Group: Forum Members
Last Active: 3 days ago
Posts: 606,
Visits: 11.6K
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I find the Riot pack very useful though. Not everything needs Motion director I understand why it’s not possible to use every Motion in iMotion director. Even transferring the traditional mocaps into iMD motions is so difficult it may take years to be possible. We’re lucky to have some motions in Motion director. I still use mostly the traditional way and I’m happy with it.
My latest movie THE GOLDEN MAN, and a few others: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIl1EqVCKitZzLqaNnLK0BA
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Kelleytoons
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Kelleytoons
Posted Last Year
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Group: Forum Members
Last Active: Last Year
Posts: 9.2K,
Visits: 22.1K
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Too bad you can't use this (at least the walking motions) with the crowd sim stuff - kind of makes this pack worthless to have, though.
Alienware Aurora R16, Win 11, i9-149000KF, 3.20GHz CPU, 64GB RAM, RTX 4090 (24GB), Samsung 870 Pro 8TB, Gen3 MVNe M-2 SSD, 4TBx2, 39" Alienware Widescreen Monitor
Mike "ex-genius" Kelley
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Peter (RL)
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Peter (RL)
Posted Last Year
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Group: Administrators
Last Active: Last Year
Posts: 23.1K,
Visits: 36.6K
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julionyembwe (2/12/2024)
Hi I'm Fernando, how do I buy the whole package of software and its accessories? Hi Fernando The Riot pack is just a motion pack. It only contains the animations. It doesn't include characters, clothing or accessories. You can use your own characters with the pack or purchase suitable characters from the Marketplace or Content Store.
Peter
Forum Administrator www.reallusion.com
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