Hello community, 

I've purchased a custom built PC and have installed latest CC4 and IClone8. However I've noticed the frame rate for both apps hover around the 14-15 FPS mark with soft cloth enabled. I have CC4 & Iclone8 on my old machine to compare, and it works well with upto 45 FPS with soft cloth enabled. As a test, I'm using the FREE RESOURCE>3.CLOTH PHYSICS (with Camila). With my new machine, I've noticed that when I remove the character's hair it works fine with upto 200 FPS. As soon as I re-apply hair it drops to 15 FPS. I can't understand why the new machine is not at least 45 FPS as per the old machine. Has anyone encountered similar issues, or have any insights whether the new AMD CPU's have issues with NVIDIA's PhysX engine perhaps? Or can offer guidance/setting recommendations? Both PC's have latest NVIDIA Drivers installed.The one thing I did notice is that the new machine's NVIDIA GEFORCE Experience says it cannot Optimize apps. The only game I have on both machines is MS Flight Sim 2020. On my old machine it can optimize MSFS2020, however on the new machine it can't/fails, which tends me to think it has something to do with AMS compatibility.My Old machine specs (FPS ~45FPS): Intel i7-5960x 8 Cores at 3GHz64Gid DDR2 RAMDirect X 12Windows 10 ProRTX2080TiNew Machine specs (FPS is at ~15 FPS):AMD Threadripper 7970 - 32 Cores at 4-5 GHz 128 Gig DDR5 RAMDirect X 12Windows 11 Pro App on M.2 Gen 5Storage/Content on M.2 Gen 4I've gone through comparing CC4 on both machines and I believe they are configured the same, however given the new machine is more powerful, I'm surprised by the FPS. Hoping anyone can help/guide me.

Kind Regards, Max.

Which graphic card do you have in the new computer?

                                                                

Peter
Forum Administrator

www.reallusion.com

Hi Peter, 
I have an RTX4090 installed. 
The new machine is fairly hi end. 
11 fans, liquid cooling  128gb ddr5 ram, m.2 ssd drives. 

Kind regards
Max. 

Hi Max

Thanks for letting us know the graphics card.

Did you by any chance customise your global 3D graphics settings in the Nvidia Control Panel when setting up the new computer?

If so this could be the problem.  Both CC4 (and iClone 8) offer best performance when using the default application controlled setting in the NCP. So if you did change the global setting, it would be wise to try switching it back to default or create a custom profile for CC4 which allows it to use the default setting. Then check again to see if performance is improved.

                                                                

Peter
Forum Administrator

www.reallusion.com

Hey Peter, 

The computer shop built it for me. 
However, I did reset the global settings as suggested but no luck, still animating at around 15 FPS. 

Would you know if anyone else has a similar set up (ie. AMD TR 7970x, RTX4090, win 11) and having significant FPS drops when soft cloth is enabled?

I'm looking at re-installing the graphics driver. And see if that resolves anything. 

What I have just noticed is that the NVIDIA GEFORCE EXPERIANCE app says I cannot Optimize any games. I only have MSFS2020. The interesting thing is that it states that my setup doesn't meet the requirements to optimize the game. I meet all requirements except the CPU.

Something's not quite right. I would have expected AMD TR 7970x would well and truly meet any minimum requirements!
mate, if there's any suggestions/recommendations, I'm all ears. 

I've also put in a ticket in NVIDIA, but I getting Bot responses I suspect!

I also put in a ticket to Reallusion, and they think it might be an issue with AMD CPU with NVIDIA's PhysX engine.... great! They did say they will ask around their teams.

Kind regards
Max. 



  

Well, since you mentioned that adding the hair reduces frame rates significantly, I would assume that the problem rests with the hair simulation engine in iClone. You have a multi-core machine, however, that does not help when the software uses only 1 or 2 of these cores (for playing most games, such a Threadripper is therefore not a smart choice; these CPUs are made for heavily multi-threaded applications such as 3D CPU rendering and server tasks). For something like iClone they are IMO not worth the money (I hope you did not have this machine shop-built just for iClone/CC).

My assumption would therefore be that, if you look at the CPU-load when iClone is running, you will find (very) low usage of the 32 cores; basically the CPU will be idle. The RTX 4090 does not help either, if it has to "wait" for the hair to be simulated.

If I were you, I'd try the following things:
1) Check the task manager for CPU and GPU load during playback. What do the respective loads look like?
2) Bake the hair simulation and see if the framerate increases when the hair engine is bypassed during playback (because the data has been baked). If that is the case, then it's probably the hair engine (or rather that it not adequately multi-threaded to make use of a CPU like yours).

If I'm right then NVIDIA will not be able to help you; and neither will Reallusion short of re-working the hair engine (and that is probably not economically feasible; I don't think too many iClone users run the program on a rig like yours). If I'm wrong, you can at least check off one more thing from the list of stuff to try.



My YouTube channel: Animations made with Cinema 4D and Reallusion Products

Thanks for updating. Support will hopefully be able to find the cause of this poor performance. I'm personally using an RTX 4080 but with a 13th Gen Intel i7 CPU and frame rates do not drop dramatically at all when using hair physics or complex simulations. This would point to the AMD CPU being the culprit but hopefully Support can find the exact cause and offer a solution for you.


                                                                

Peter
Forum Administrator

www.reallusion.com

Hi Nirwana & Peter, 

Thanks for your replies. Really appreciate it. 

Certainly my rig is not for gaming. Reallusion is only a subset of my workflow. 

I'll follow up your suggestions and report back. 
Given my old i7-5960 3GHz & RTX2080 can stream ~45 FPS with soft cloth enabled, where as the AMD 7970x 4GHz & RT4090 only reaches 15 FPS, makes me lean more towards that AMD may not be optimized for this scenario. And if this is the case, hopefully they can roll out a fix/update. 

Regards, 
Max.

 

Have you tried using the Nvidia Studio driver?
Greetings Robert

Hi Rosuckmedia et al, 

Initially yes, however, I reinstalled the game driver using DDU and then install via NVCleanInstall and installed the recommended driver components. I was comparing my old pc config with the new pc, and noticed that the old PC had VIRTUALIZATION Disabled, but the new PC had VIRTUALIZATION Enabled. So I disabled Virtualization from the BIOS on my new pc, rebooted and started CC4. Good news is that I have gained 5 FPS as a result. So my old PC is at 45 FPS with softcloth enabled, and now my new PC is at 20-21 FPS with soft cloth enabled (Good start!)Now I'm thinking that I need to look at CPU performance tuning. Is there anything you guys can suggest/recommend from a CPU utilization tuning perspective? perhaps in the BIOS and/or windows OS configuration that I should focus on?I will also retry the STUDIO driver. Kind regards,Max.