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Getting started documentation for Python API?

Posted By barca-8 Last Year
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barca-8
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Is documentation available on how to setup the environment and a few examples? I looked at this video but it's several years old and the webpages it references ("iclone Python API") don't appear to exist anymore: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzMueIBT0qI


barca-8
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It almost seems like this page is broken. It looks nice, but when you click on, say, "Getting Started", it takes you to a wiki page that's more or less empty...



animagic
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There is an other entry point here: https://wiki.reallusion.com/Reallusion_Wiki.

It provides links to both the IC7 API and the IC8 API.

RL has been very quiet around to IC8 API...Unsure


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barca-8
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Thank you for that response. That last comment is somewhat concerning. 
The documentation appears to be in a state of disarray.
I'll try to fumble my way through the examples etc, although I'm wondering if this is a good use of my time if RL is taking things in a new direction (?)
barca-8
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I don't suppose there's an API available (or in the works) for C#?
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The plugin landscape for iClone is pretty ugly, but it's not likely to get worse given where it's at. It will likely remain the same or get better (which I wouldn't hold my breadth for). As you have seen, once you go past the pretty website marketing slides promoting the open plugin system and how great it is, the rest of the experience drops to the level of that page they link to. It's actually an apt link, because it says most of what you need to know.

What you really want as a new developer coming in to check this out, beyond being pointed to page that makes you think something is broken or abandoned or backed by geocities webservers that no longer exist, is some simple and direct documentation around their python environment, how it works, what are versions and limititations, how might you hook an IDE or something more than Notepad into it, and then some nice examples to get started. They give you some examples at least, so at least you have the body of the car even if the wheels are absent. I think some brave soul on the internet somewhere has put up some of those details, I know I found it once while on a journey through this wasteland, not sure I could find it again.

You can see they thought or planned or hoped the python API would be a bigger thing. They talk about rapid relesases with more experiemental stuff, with some of the addiions dropping or staying or changing, with other parts of the API being more stable. There is a fair amount of talk. It quickly dies down, and none of it seemed to be become relevant.

The documentation they do have is not top notch. It's a slog, and you will find plenty of things that leave you scatching your head, not least of which are the methods that are documented for a number of paramaters that doesn't match the example right there in the same documenation. Required parameters. Anyway, it's not written to try and be helpful or very useful for someone trying to get into iClone developement. You can throw an AI at it, and it will tell you as nothing goes into much detail about anything, it can make some guesses, but there is not enough there to allow you to understand things beyond that.

So the API itself is kind of dense, not in terms of what it offers in capabilities, but more understandibility, and the documenation is poor, and the updates and support and whatnot is poor, and the communication after the initial burst is very poor, and unless they pull it out, thats likely how things will remain.

And people work it out, and they write some plugins. So you could to. My main point is, I wouldnt take the state of things as bad omens for where things are going. Thats been the state things and will probably be the state of things. So if your willing to work through it, I think your good. And if not, yeah, there are better pluin system to learn. Blender? Not the best in the world, but light years beyond this. Most any of them are.
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mrtobycook
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I agree that the links are broken, unfortunately. The various web pages for the iClone API (and also links inside of iClone 8 itself) are all broken and go to nonexistent pages, so they come up with errors). As Animagic said, you can go to the Reallusion WIKI and then click on the iClone 8 API button, and it will take you here:
https://wiki.reallusion.com/IC8_Python_API

I am making massive assumptions, of course - due to a lack of info that I can find - but my guess is that Python plug-in development wasn't a popular "thing" and so they stopped putting resources towards it. Instead, they concentrated on all the other million features of iclone 8 and CC4 :-) Which I think is fair enough!

If you know Python, it's actually really easy. I think that's part of the problem too. The programmers who are involved (who work for Reallusion) probably just assume that it's so straightforward that nobody needs help. :-)

Anyway, I would recommend anyone starting with the iClone 8 Python API to just go to the Marketplace and download the free plugins (only the ones that say they work with iclone 8, which is about half or a quarter of the free ones). Then install them, so you can see how easy it is. (You simply copy the folder with the pluginto the OpenPlugins folder on your hard drive and restart iclone - its that easy!)
C:\Program Files\Reallusion\iClone 8\Bin64\OpenPlugin

Every plugin, at its minimum, needs a "main.py" file, and then a ui file, which you can name anything really - as long as it ends with ".ui". It's written in XML.

As with most coding, you can learn by just making changes to the existing ones and seeing what it does.

The hard thing is that there is no development environment for the plugins. That is, you have to keep restarting iClone to see script changes! You can try the "Script menu">LOAD PYTHON method, but because of file dependencies that won't work really. anyway, I don't know if any of that was helpful, but  just wanted to try. :-)



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bad_character
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I think really easy is quite a stretch. All the code for the API is in a single undocumented python file. Completely undocumented. All of the various overview and getting started info is spread all over the place with no obvious path from the entry pages to get to half of them. Most of the example code and example projects, won’t work with iClone 8. Many of the projects are not even going to be updated for iClone 8. If the info is not wrong, it’s missing. If it’s not missing it’s incomplete. Anything that’s off, iClone crashes. The Python Console? Slightly better than useless. Without hooking up a debugger, you don’t even get a proper error message half the time. How to hook up a debugger? Good like finding that info.

I means if this is easy, the Blender python addon API must almost write the code itself in comparison.
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I also think if you do know python that just makes the fact that the creators of API seemingly have little experience just more annoying. Method naming and such not following the practices of 99% of the python in existent. The inconsistent API. Many things use get methods that behave like 99% of python. Then you run into a method that takes arguments for the return value and returns a status of whether the get call worked? WTF. And if you look through the example projects, there is a bunch of weird esoteric little stuff you have to do for non trivial stuff that you’d never know if we’re not an iClone developer, that’s not documented. It’s honestly some of the worst documented, ugliest, abnormal API python I’ve encountered.
mrtobycook
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I agree, it’s quite frustrating.

I am glad they include it though, I’ve been able to achieve a lot with it.

I think perhaps just not enough people used it / showed interest when it was launched, and that is mostly why it’s like this. Also, it’s a free addition that they added to the software. They could easily just remove it entirely. And I hope they don’t.

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